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Hi fellow music lovers, As I'm trying to purchased several pairs of French made 12AX7/ECC83's, I'm somewhat confused by the various makes/brands and was wondering if any of you could tell me more about the sounds as offered by each company as listed - (1) Mazda (2) Cifte (3) R/T Radiotechnique. It seems that some say that the R/T's offer a sound that's somewhere between the other two, but some say the both the Mazda and Cifte's sound pretty much the same. What's the truth of the matter?, and which do you find more musically balanced top to bottom?. Thanks in advance, Oscar
Follow Ups:
Andy, I made a mistake in regards to one of the 3 Brimar factories, I meant to say - Footscray, Kent UK. Regards, Oscar
French tubes have a very unique sound signature and invoke love\hate relationship. Mazda & Cifte are the same tubes - Cifte was produced by Mazda for military (have both of them - they sound the same). French tubes in general have very transparent sound in incredible sparkle on the top - it's like a good champagne (great depth, fantastic sparkle and superb liveliness) - I found them to be incredible in live show type presentation, they communicate the atmosphere of the show very well. Haven't tried RTC, so can't comment.
Hi nick-seattle, Thanks for adding insight into this topic - as I was trying to read more about the 6 or 7 factories in France that produce tubes. It's nice to know that Mazda/Cifte are both one of the same, as I'd have been purchasing tubes from both brands - not knowing any better. I'm still trying to get a feel for where R/T Radiotechnique based tubes rate among these versions?, as I was told that their factory only produced so - so sounding tubes. Have a great Holiday and thanks again. Best wishes, Oscar
It is impossible to do justice to French 12AX7s without taking into account regional variations. It is well known that the sound in the Bordeaux area of construction is somewhat dry, but with a rich after-taste to each note, clearly detectable on a spectrum analyzer (Petrus, 1947). This is more of a Push-Pull choice, or as the French say “Poussez-Tirez”, and appeals to owners of “vintage” equipment.
The Burgundy area of construction is warmer and more suited to Single Ended or “Une seule Fin” “amplis”, as they are called, where afficionados seek elusive electrons or as the French say are “Ŕ la recherche des electrons perdus”. These tubes are frequently used by flaneurs and salonards and are somewhat derided by purists.
One should not forget Corsica, where the electrons are smaller but very highly charged. One is advised to wear a large hat and have one arm inside ones greatcoat when working on equipment containing these. They travel badly, and it is not recommended to post them to Moscow in winter, for instance.
The halves match well, since the French are well known for égalité and fraternité.
Hi Andy, It took me a moment there to understand what you were getting at, but since I'm now aware of the six companies in France that actually produced tubes/valves I get what you're referring to. Thanks for that very tasteful analogy it was creative to say the least. Regards, Oscar
Hi Oscar,
Over here in England we're a bit closer to French culture and have a historically "lively" relationship with our conquering cousins across the narrow channel that divides us. The French, for instance, would be very loathe to use the "foggy" and "perfidious" sound of the Mullard 12AX7s that we hold in such high regard.
Andy
Hi Andy, I can totally understand what you're getting at. As we all tend to view our own countries tubes ( valves ) better then others. In the end the user must find a way to voice their systems accordingly as well as to ones preferences. Whereas some tubes have rolled off highs - but beautiful emphasis in the midrange - some are more extended on top with little or no bass to speak of - I'm trying to learn more about which given factories in each country actually produced the best sounding tubes on a consistent level - as I've learned of late Mullard tubes were produced in about 4 different factories were as Brimar based tubes were produced in three and it appears the better sounding ones came from the Paignton and Footscary factories. I'm learning and that's what matters most at this time. Rather late then never I'd say. Cheers,Oscar
Dunno if this will help you much... but I find the vintage French ECC83 to sound a lot like the same vintage Dutch Amperex ECC83. Which is very good. Long lasting, too.
Hi FenderLover, As a matter of fact that helps a lot. As I've gone through the usual suspects like Mullard and Telefunken's and found that to my ears, I preferred the tone of either Tungsram - Mazda ( Silver Plated ) - RCA and CBS/Hytron 12AX7's more. Yet I was following something were it seems you're quite fond of the Raytheon JAN - 5751 ( BPT
M and Windmill Getter 5751's ) and 12AX7 Long Black Plates ( Sq. Getter NOS 1950's ) as well. So in my mind your recommendation makes prefect sense. Thanks for taking the time to voice said opinion, as I'm not new to this - but I haven't covered all of the options, so it's all about gaining extra insight into the unknown. Regards,Oscar
French make very good bottles. Some even don't have wine in them.
8^)
Hi FenderLover, The thanks goes to you. I just know its time to give them a try - I'm aware that Joe's Tube Lore talks more about those 5751's as being the only real options, but a part of me has questioned his words to this day - so I've to find out for myself what's the truth. Here goes nothing. Be well, Oscar
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