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In Reply to: RE: Some might have a different opinion posted by deafbykhorns on October 17, 2016 at 13:33:46
The practice of running tubes at the MFR. op. points dates
back to the "Golden Age" of tubes, where every drug store had
a tube tester, and every dime store had 3 of them.Underneath the tube tester(usually made by Hickok)was a stash of new
tubes. The recommended op. points were used by all MFRS-- T.V.s,
radios, Hi-Fis, Living Room consoles, etc.The WHOLE THING was TUBE SALES, and NOTHING ELSE.
Usual expected tube life was under 1000 hours-- usually about half that.
McIntosh started running tubes less "hot". Still way too hot by the
best standards today, but at least tubes weren't running away or glowing red
anymore. Those old amps aren't good performers today, but they were the
best of their time...Some still revere the old parts (they're all junk), and some still
use the old tube data-- SALES derived junk.Today we know better.
--Dennis--
Edits: 10/18/16Follow Ups:
I would agree if it were a rare tube but design what sounds best.
You didn't explain what the amp manufacturers were getting out of it. Did they secretly own shares in the tube companies? Not sure why they would bother to be part of it other wise.
Edits: 10/18/16
The tube mfrs and stores SOLD the tubes, equipment mfrs were locked into
a kind of watts/per dollar quasi horsepower race.
The hotter they ran the tubes, the more power per dollar they got.
WATTS was what sold. "Higher-End" (there wasn't yet any real high-end except for movie theatres) was what "quality" mfrs did-- ran tubes less hot, and charged more $ per watt.
That was still too hot by today's standards, but fortunately, some good
tubes (Gold-Lion or Genalex KT-88 as an example) could take it.
Today we can easily do with 1/2 watt much more than they could do with 60 watts. Running tubes extra hot does force better transfer efficiency
and in some cases, linearity thru the tube in question, but today we can solve these problems by advanced wiring, layout, and lowered system resistances instead of cooking vacuum tubes trying to force super-conduction.
It's just common sense to find a way to do it right instead.
-Dennis--
"we can easily do with 1/2 watt much more than they could do with 60 watts."
Right.
--------------------------
Buy Chinese. Bury freedom.
"Today we can easily do with 1/2 watt much more than they could do with 60 watts."
How? wiring transfer efficiency? 3.4146 runs of some specially selected wire, arranged in parallel, serving a high output impedance source like a 12AX7's plate?
Going back to LMAO now...
cheers,
Douglas
Friend, I would not hurt thee for the world...but thou art standing where I am about to shoot.
It all comes down to the consumer in the end. Just like with transistors vs tubes. The public believed all the bull instead of doing their own comparisons and that was the start of a long slippery slope. It is still buyer beware, and the consumer's dollars can change what the manufacturers (tube or otherwise) produce. If people won't buy it, they won't produce it.
Maybe Dennis is saying that all the design engineers, back in the day, were stupid and just went along with the tube manufacturers recommendations because they didn't know any better?
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
"The WHOLE THING was TUBE SALES, and NOTHING ELSE."
Home builder misinformation, nothing else.
Just because it does not fit your 'engineering' sensibilities, or personal beliefs, does not make it so.
cheers,
Douglas
Friend, I would not hurt thee for the world...but thou art standing where I am about to shoot.
" The WHOLE THING was TUBE SALES, and NOTHING ELSE.
Usual expected tube life was under 1000 hours-- usually about half that."
That's not true. I had plenty of audio gear back in the day that saw 5,000-10,000 hours of service without a failure - guitar amps, preamps, integrated amps. Most televisions also ran their tubes at or above the manufacturers' op points and gave similar service. Lots of people can remember a TV lasting close to ten years without new tubes, probably well over 10,000 hours.
--------------------------
Buy Chinese. Bury freedom.
Can you name some of the drug store model tube testers that Hickok made?
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
I have a "u-test-m" brand drugstore type console tester as a basement decoration. It is most definitely NOT a Hickok product.
I certainly don't know everything but I am not aware of any drug store models made by Hickok.
It would be interesting if Dennis can come up with one.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
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