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In Reply to: RE: Triode Kingdom reminded me of a very good point the other day. posted by Eli Duttman on September 16, 2016 at 07:56:07
"Hammond has moved some production to China."
Purchases must be managed carefully for that reason. Here's how I do it to avoid getting burned:
First, you need either a picture of the product that says "Made in Canada/USA/Germany etc." (like the photo in the Allied catalog) or a seller's description indicating non-Chinese origin. If it's an eBay purchase without a good picture, I always ask the seller before buying. Second, be certain you can return the parts if they turn out to be Chinese. I do this by making all purchases using a credit card. I also never buy from sellers in a foreign country regarding this particular issue (Chinese vs Western manufacture). Foreign purchases are not protected by credit card contracts. Note that I'm not talking about buying things like Russian capacitors here, just items that might be deceptively made in China. Finally, when I receive parts or products that differ significantly from the description, such as being Chinese rather than the Western parts I expected, I just send them back. I don't contact the seller. I don't complain to eBay or PayPal. They just go back with delivery confirmation (tracking). It's been my experience, based on the rare cases when I've had this problem, that the credit card company will *always* credit my account.
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Buy Chinese. Bury freedom.
Follow Ups:
Agreed.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
As long as it's still a Hammomd product and built to their standards, why does it matter?
Every country has their share of quality and junk products.IIRC, the reason Japanese cars were able to flood the market in the early 70s was due to the poor quality of lower priced American cars.
And as far as this forum goes, remember that early American consumer transistor products were high unreliable compared to the Japanese. That's another long story as to why but it's basically because the Japanese embraced transistor technology for consumer products long before the Americans. They had more application experience with then fragile transistors in an uncontrolled residential environment. Where as the USA previously only used transistors in military and industrial applications.
I certainly agree a lot of sub standard electronic components come out of China. But let's not apply that across the board. I like to research and evaluate products manufacture by manufacture.
P.S. I am not Asian either. I am American of German decent. So this is not a race issue at all. I just want good quality at a good price. I really don't care who makes it.
Edits: 09/19/16 09/19/16
A few years ago, I talked to an American transformer company about Chinese quality. he said that they had learned the hard way that to get good product, they has to supply the materials (wire and laminations) and also install one of their own personnel as quality manager in the actual factory. At the time, Chinese production was very prone to making good products initially, but switching to cheaper materials when not being watched.
Japanese manufacturing had similar issues before they "got religion" about quality and incorporated Deming's ideas. I remember my first transistor radio (from Japan), advertised as a six-transistor radio. I was a teen at the time, so naturally I disassembled it to see what was inside - sure enough, six transistors, but two of them had all three leads soldered to the ground plane. They were purely decorative.
"sure enough, six transistors, but two of them had all three leads soldered to the ground plane."
That situation didn't improve because Japanese companies suddenly became honest. It stopped because the FTC passed regulations that made it illegal. Same thing for the ridiculous peak power claims by Japanese audio manufacturers starting in the early '70s. That didn't stop until the government put the hammer down. Even then, the regulations didn't impact autosound, and absurdly false product claims have continued in that industry to the present day. So as not to give the wrong impression, Japan in general is aligned much more closely with Western values and practices than countries like China. All Chinese companies of any real magnitude are linked to the CCP in one way or another. Most maintain product quality only at whatever minimal level is forced on them by partners and buyers. There's little or no intrinsic concern about quality or customers.
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Buy Chinese. Bury freedom.
I am old enough to remember when most Japanese products were considered to be junk. I would not be surprised if the Chinese learned the same lesson and embarked on a quality improvement program similar to what Japan did after WWII.
Remember these are the people who made Ming vases.
ray
They may, but Japan and China are different cultures and China's place in the world is different to that of post WW2 Japan. Japan's quality success was largely due to their relative openness to change (and need for assistance) follwing the devastation of the war.
Cheers,
91.
"Confusion of goals and perfection of means seems to characterise our age." Albert Einstein
The China copies were deliberately cheapened.
Japan copies were either as precise a clone as could be done, or had additional engineering time put into improvements.
cheers,
Douglas
Friend, I would not hurt thee for the world...but thou art standing where I am about to shoot.
As long as it's still a Hammomd product and built to their standards, why does it matter?
Sadly,that has long been the attitude that is leading and has led to the demise of American manufacturing.The truth is,the quality isn't the same and Asian audiophiles will tell you this themselves,that our products are far superior and this is why they want them.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
And those are assumptions that have - in my experience - been proven wrong over and over during the last 20 years. I simply won't take the risk regarding Chinese quality if there's an alternative. There are other good reasons too, but they're OT in this forum.
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Buy Chinese. Bury freedom.
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