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Has anyone heard or bought the new Quad Z4 speaker, or it's little brother the Z3?
The initial impressions from magazine reviewers seem to be very positive although I've not found a full review yet.
I'm looking for a speaker to replace my Avantgarde Unos that sounded fantastic in my London home. However they are not so good in my new and very different living room. Although the room shape and other features are undoubtedly difficult, I was hoping a change in amplifier might give a boost to the Unos. Minor improvement with a GamuT D200, but not back to the excitement that these speakers are capable of.
Trying a Quadral Aurum Mentan next week (I'd probably go for the bigger Vulkan) and hopefully the Revel Studio 2 in due course, but the Quad is much less costly (£3200 for Z4) and has a ribbon tweeter (as do Quadrals) which I think may be more akin to the Unos's horns as far as detail and "tingle factor".
Any feedback on the Quads or other ideas that may be helpful greatly appreciated
[My room is roughly semi-circular (actually more parabolic) with floor-to-ceiling glazing along the curved wall - 1000 sq ft with low 7'7" ceiling height. Speakers are in the middle of the room facing across to one side of the curved wall - you see the problem?]
Follow Ups:
"[My room is roughly semi-circular (actually more parabolic) with floor-to-ceiling glazing along the curved wall - 1000 sq ft with low 7'7" ceiling height. Speakers are in the middle of the room facing across to one side of the curved wall - you see the problem?]"
I would say that with that very odd shaped and "difficult" room, any opinion upon any speaker and how well it may function there is going to be speculative at best.
I can only suggest that you will need to try before you buy. As you are in the UK that should not be too difficult to arrange. I have never had any trouble over the years in arranging this kind of thing. Whereabouts is your new location? Do you have a reasonably local Quad dealer?
NB: I am not sure that high powered transistor amps are the best match for Avantgarde Unos. They are designed for use with low powered, probably single ended tube jobs. Hence the high sensitivity. And why they have that "tingle" factor.
Budget?
> Whereabouts is your new location? Do you have a reasonably local Quad dealer?
I live in Portsmouth where Audio T is listed as a Quad dealer. I'll visit them soon - after my Quadral home test
> I am not sure that high powered transistor amps are the best match for Avantgarde Unos. They are designed for use with low powered, probably single ended tube jobs. Hence the high sensitivity. And why they have that "tingle" factor.
Yes, I've been using SET valve amps with the Unos (845 monos and PX-25 based), but have recently been trying SS amps to see if they offer better sound in my listening room. Red Wine has been tried after rave reviews with my type of speakers, but sounded dreadful - and distorted.
Then, after reading several postings on another forum from the owner of Avantgarde Trios (and who has owned many valve and SS amps) where he claimed to have found the match made in heaven for his AGs with the new Benchmark AHB2, I bought that amp in anticipation of similar results, but it turned out as lifeless and bland (despite its far better bass) with my speakers.
Then Sugden Class A (unsophisticated and lacking subtlety), then Accuphase A-36 Class A (excellent but not much improvement over the 845 monos).
Then I took a punt on a much more powerful Class AB solid state amp - a Gamut D200 Mk III. This has proved best so far, although it has an unfamiliar feature. The dynamic range is far greater than any earlier amp I've used. This has advantages sound-wise, but also has one big disadvantage as I live in a flat - with neighbours! If I set a suitable volume (usually quite loud without fear of a knock on the door), I find the next track will be FAR louder - or quieter. I'm therefore having to adjust the volume quite frequently when listening late at night. I've asked elsewhere why this might be but the only useful feasible suggestion is that the Class A and SETs are unable to provide the full range on the recording, partly because of their relatively small power. I'm far from convinced of this, but it's an undeniable fact that the 200 watt Gamut does have a much fuller range than any of my sub-30 watt amps.
It'll be interesting to try less efficient speakers with my current selection of amps - Red Wine, Accuphase, Consonance Cyber 845 and the Gamut.
The Gamut is hugely costly (about £8000 in current D200i version) and is crude in many respects, particularly compared with the beautifully built and far better featured Accuphase. The latter offers perceived good value, the Gamut's perceived value much less - but it does sound great!
Peter
" I live in a flat - with neighbours! " Me too - I understand the problem.
"If I set a suitable volume (usually quite loud without fear of a knock on the door), I find the next track will be FAR louder - or quieter. I'm therefore having to adjust the volume quite frequently when listening late at night. "
This doesn't sound right. Mean recording levels do not vary that much track to track on the vast majority of records. There may be the odd peak here or there but once an acceptable average listening level is set, in general terms dynamic variations usually fall within an acceptable range - the compression applied by the engineers makes sure of this. OK we all have the odd disc that does not conform to this but I am assuming from your posting that these huge variations are commonplace with you. Do you have any figures ; what is your normal mean listening level? What is the average peak compared to this? Have you measured by how much next track "is FAR louder"? Even a sound pressure meter app on your phone will give a reasonable idea.
Living in an apartment and playing music late at night at acceptable levels for the listener usually mandates headphones IMO. That's why I have always maintained a decent headphone setup.
Your experience with the Benchmark seems to echo that of the reviews I have read. Otherwise you have extreme amounts of power available for your purpose from the other amps. The Unos have a measured sensitivity (Stereophile) of circa. 102.5dB for 2.83v/m. So the majority of your listening would probably involve only a tiny fraction of the power available from any of the amps at your disposal.
Portsmouth eh? Have our paths crossed before ? Did you once have ATCs? If not I apologise for confusing you with someone else.
Hi PAR
> Mean recording levels do not vary that much track to track on the vast majority of records.
Yes, I agree that most tracks within a single CD are normally pretty much on the same level, but it varies quite a bit from CD to CD. Also of course (and I was not referring to this in my earlier post) classical music is likely to have huge variation from movement to movement and throughout the performance.
I was listening to non-classical music from my NAS drive with the streamer set for Random Play, so each track was from different CDs. With the Gamut (and not nearly so pronounced with the SETs or Class As) there was a much greater need to adjust volume, both for my own listening and to keep neighbours on side. It's a bit like comparing music from BBC3 with the same music from Classic FM where BBC offers the unadulterated recording but Classic uses compression to keep the volume relatively flat - much better for in-car listening for example. You're from UK, so I guess you're familiar with these stations.
> Do you have any figures; what is your normal mean listening level? What is the average peak compared to this? Have you measured by how much next track "is FAR louder"? Even a sound pressure meter app on your phone will give a reasonable idea.
I often listen at fairly loud levels, even during the late evening as my flat is pretty well soundproofed. No measurements, but I'll try your suggestion of a mobile phone app to take readings - should be enlightening!
> Your experience with the Benchmark seems to echo that of the reviews I have read.
I bought mine before any reviews were published. I relied on the AG Trio owner (obviously not short of a few bob and with lots of experience with all sorts of exotic amps) as an influence. Only later have I discovered that he has an overwhelming hatred of any minute presence of "noise". One could ask why he chooses 108 dB efficiency speakers, but he's found his dead silence from his somewhat dull and bland Benchmark.
The subsequent reviews from Stereophile and others have only hinted at this blandness and have otherwise praised this amplifier. It's a real pity they hadn't made more of a mention that, despite its "accuracy" and dead quietness, it's as dull as ditch water with such thrilling speakers as Avantgardes should be with the right amplifier.
> Portsmouth eh? Have our paths crossed before ? Did you once have ATCs? If not I apologise for confusing you with someone else.
Excellent memory - yes, I live in Portsmouth and yes, I used to have ATC Active 50 speakers for a short while immediately before my Unos and after my KEF Reference 107s. The ATCs were so much "in your face" in my London flat that I wanted to push them back another 20 feet - unfortunately impossible! I read the Stereophile review of the Avantgarge Unos (their chosen joint Speaker of the Year in 2000 and what good and thorough reviews they did then), and it described exactly the sound I was looking for, and so unlike the ATCs. After a very brief listen at a dealer I bought a pair and have enjoyed them ever since. They just don't sound their best in my difficult listening room - perhaps the ATCs would be better here!!
> The Unos have a measured sensitivity (Stereophile) of circa. 102.5dB for 2.83v/m. So the majority of your listening would probably involve only a tiny fraction of the power available from any of the amps at your disposal.
Yes but strangely, the position on my preamp for my various amplifies differs much less than one might expect. The 845 valve monos are rated at 28 watts, the Red Wine and Accuphase at 30, so not much adjustment expected, but the Gamut at 200 watts with the gain setting set at -6 dB, requires only a small downwards adjustment in the preamp output. I think the main difference will be when I try out much lower efficiency speakers. The Quadral, Revel and Quad are in the 87 to 90 dB range so I'll need lots more watts. I anticipate the valve and Class A will be fine at low listening levels but the Gamut may be the only one to offer realistic loud listening with ease.
Peter
Really good headphones with a really good dedicated amp and upgraded cable would satisfy you and the neighbors.
Yes indeed, as I said " That's why I have always maintained a decent headphone setup." I think that the OP would benefit from your advice though.
Yes, I'm sure you're right but I often share my listening with others and I'd hate to think of 2 or 3 people sitting around listening to the same music through headphones and barely able to communicate such important messages as "Another glass of wine?". Perhaps we should be using text messages for this - what a miserable thought!
No, I really don't like the prospect of headphones despite the fact that I'm sure one can listen in super quality and at whatever volume one likes without disturbing neighbours. I don't like cables between my amp / headphone amp and my listening chair either, although I presume there are good wireless headphones available. Any recommendations, although none of my existing amps has a phones output?
Thanks Peter
I certainly appreciate your social needs. Very civilised IMO. Agreed that headphones are not a practical idea with guests.Yes I believe that these days there are very good wireless cans out there. However I have no personal knowledge of them and have to admit that I don't understand how they interface with a traditional hifi set up. I do get how they can work with e.g. Blue Tooth streaming (preferably where all is APTX) but I tend to come across this this mainly in relation to phones, tablets and similar devices.
I would always recommend Tyll Hertsen's InnerFidelity website where there is loads of good guidance on headphone matters.
My own ( wired) approach can be found in my profile here but I am going to be looking for some new 'phones to replace my old Sennheisers sometime soon.
Headphones really can offer satisfying listening. I had a wonderful evening yesterday listening to R3's live broadcast via the HD stream of John Eliot Gardener/Mendelssohn Violin Concerto (Ibragimova) and Lobgesang symphony. Speakers are currently back at the factory for service (tweeter upgrade).
Regards
Pete
Edits: 10/21/16
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