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Hello,
My experience in the field is almost minimal. So, if my request is a little absurd, I apologize in advance. That said, I go straight to the point. I am passionate by many years of electronic music. I also compose a little bit, but nothing significant. I have always been "stuck" in limiting compositional methods (DAW) that never gave me satisfaction. Lately, however, I discovered the world of MaxMSP, installations and interactive performances and I discovered a new world. In particular, I would be interested in doing an installation in which the sound - in particular, SPACE - has a vital role. For this, I started to interest in 3D audio and its possible applications. What I'm looking for, roughly, it is a speaker system to experiment a bit with the three-dimensional audio. In my mind, this system would work as follows:
- What i would do is, in a small way, something like that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvM-SxrMv6s
- It would be composed of at least 10 speakers
- It would be totally configurable: to one speaker i could assign one or more channels, as well as more speakers i could also assign a single channel etc ..
- Each speaker would easily movable and transportable: it should have the same ease of mobility of a microphone that is above its stand: no drills, screws, fixings to the wall etc.
- Should have the "rotating head" (is the right term? (Just like a microphone, who has the ability to be directed))
- The software to configure the channels and outputs should be, in a live situation, somehow controllable with MaxMSP or similar programs (no digital audio workstation, excluding ableton)
- Each speaker should have the possibility of being able to be raised in height (just like a microphone upon a stand, which can be adjusted in elevation).
- All the aesthetic discourse related to the speakers is secondary: they can also appear as roofless wires, does not interest me at all. I'm interested in making music.
To get started, it would also fine a medium-low level or even low level system. For now, I would be interested only in experience a little bit in my home. Then, as time goes on, i'll see.
Now, what I wonder is:
- Is there a commercially available system that has these characteristics? If yes, what is the cheapest? If not, is there the possibility of putting separate speakers together to "build" that system?
For now, I'll stop here, but i'm available to any clarification.
Thank you,
Leonardo.
Follow Ups:
It's great that you are thinking about this! I hope that you have ideas about compositions, and will realize them!
While I don't have specific recommendations for equipment, I suggest that you find self-powered speakers - speakers with the amp built-in. This will be less expensive than separate amps and speakers. You also need multi-channel recording software, such as Pro Tools or SoundForge. Also look at Cubase and Reason as software tools (I'm not sure if they are still available). Lastly, you'll need a hardware setup to send any track to any of your ten output channels. At the low-price range, there are several hardware options: Mackie, Yamaha and others make inexpensive mixers which you could use. You could use a software-based system with multi-channel outputs from a computer, but I think that would be cumbersome and therefore, restrict artistic energy because of excessive effort/attention dealing with menu choices, etc.
Lastly, your idea is not new, but is still quite important and artistic. Multi-channel music and systems have been around since the 1970s, and maybe earlier. Invariably, the systems are purpose-built for a particular composition and presentation. This is NOT bad news for you. You are an artist, and it is to be expected that performing a multi-channel work will require a purpose-built system.
I enourage you to explore various places where such compositions and systems are well-established, so that you will gain more insight into the field. There are many universities which have "experimental music" programs. Google that. Also, IRCAM in Paris is a hotbed of avant garde/experimental music. http://www.ircam.fr/ircam.html?&L=1
Carry on!
:)
Hi and thanks for the reply,regarding the software, i'm using maxmsp with an external program that control the sound objects spatialization: http://spatium.ruipenha.pt/
Regarding the hardware, instead, i don't know precisely what i would need to do it. I think that i'd need a receiver for the decode of the standard i will use (example: 5.1). A simple mixer isn't sufficient: if i change the room, the effect will change. I'd need a sort of sintoamplifier.
Regarding the speakers, of course i will take active speakers. But i don't know how to choose it. I was looking fot these: http://www.whathifi.com/q-acoustics/3020/review, but really i know nothing about speakers. Too many questions running through my head
Yes, i know very well Ircam. They were among those who inspired me.
Edits: 09/29/16
"i don't know how to choose it. (...) really i know nothing about speakers. Too many questions running through my head"Don't obsess over details at this point. Just get started. You can upgrade later.
You can't learn how to swim until you get into the pool. (I made that up all by myself.)
:)
Edits: 09/30/16
"(example: 5.1). A simple mixer isn't sufficient: if i change the room, the effect will change. I'd need a sort of sintoamplifier. "Think beyond 5.1. That's a commercial mass consumer format.
Yes: If you change the room, the sound will change. This isn't a problem.
Carry on!
:)
Edits: 09/29/16 09/29/16
So you might want to do some reading about achieving this without many speakers. That's what Head Related Transfer Function research is about. (HRTF). WHY do you hear sounds coming in three dimensions, and how to replicate that. That's possible with many fewer loudspeakers.
Next, the latest theater sound systems are designed around the idea of sound "objects" that are then mapped onto 2 or more speakers. Dolby Atmos and Datasat's Auro are like this. So, you may find much about recording and playing back in 3D this way.
As I understand it, and I understand it very little... the idea is that instead of a set of recordings mapped to a track, and then mixed to speakers, you create a sound object, like a space ship, and decide where in 3D space it should be. This let's the composer think in terms of space instead of tracks.
The idea comes I think from games, and virtual sound fields.
Best,
Erik
Yes. it's the idea of sound object.I do not know how to explain it yet, because i still do not know exactly what I would do, but the idea of the composer who thinks in terms of space attracts me a lot.
And yes, i was just thinking of reducing the number of speaker's, and maybe do a 5.1 system without the sub. Maybe a sort of 5 full range active speakers.
I'm searching for a low budget/decent speakers. If you've got some hints, don't hesitate!
Edits: 09/28/16 09/28/16
Well, the playback is different than the composition. :)
I make all my own speakers, but I have to rely on off the shelf decoders either built into my BluRay players or receivers, etc.
If you want a reference grade 2-way speaker system, my free kit plans are available online, but at around $350/pair may be a lot if you want to put 24 speakers or something. :)
So, just for understand, I would need, in addition to the speakers and the software that makes me the encode, also a receiver that do the decode, right?
So, it will be a little expensive thing. But i think i'll do.
And yes, your speakers price is too much for me, at the moment, sorry :/ Maybe in the future, when i will understand and will have done a little of experience.
Yes. I mean, you are basically doing home theater. :)
So it's not just a matter of the speakers, but the decoder, power, etc.
Using a pure PC setup however.... you could do multitrack with multi-track outputs. You'll still need 1 amp per speaker, but you could do the multi-tracking and output all on the PC.
For that, you'll need to research professional PC mastering software. Of course, there's versions for Mac and PC.
You might also want to read through articles at Stereophile under "Music in the Round"
Best,
Erik
Yes yes. I've got the software. This is the only thing that i have. It's an extension for MaxMsp: http://spatium.ruipenha.pt/
But regarding the hardware, I've nothing.
The last thing I want to ask is: if I take a receiver, I would not need an audio interface, is it true? The receiver will make the audio interface/mixer function?
If you are using a desktop PC, they have 7.1 outputs in the form of a cluster of mini-jacks.
If you want more than that, you'll need a professional PC multi-channel interface. Some are USB, while some are PCI/ISA interface based.
That's if you don't need to create a DVD or multi-channel DSD presentation.
If you want to send your creations out as DVD audio or the like, then listeners would need a consumer HT decoder or something like that. Music-in-the-Round has a lot more on that.
Best,
Erik
You might be able to do something like that with a digital mixing console like the Behringer X32.
I an still learning, but I think this might be part of your answer..
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