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Has anyone else noticed that the new battleground in speakers these days is in the entry level products ?
Has the rest of the world learned a thing or 2 from our Canadien friends ?
Back when Alan Devantier left Paradigm, to go work at Infinity, he told me that Paradign almost took a loss on some of their entry level speakers, to establish brand loyalty.
It seems like an outright war zone now in entry level speakers. Pioneer proved to be successful selling the speakers designed by Andrew Jones. So much so that ELAC must have made him an offer he couldn't refuse ?
And now it seems like JBL is trying to fight back, with these. You can buy a pair of these right now on Amazon for 175.00 Shipped.
I haven't heard these, but they sure seem like a lot of speaker for the money.
Follow Ups:
Yes. The "entry" level gear has gotten/is VERY good. This is THE golden age of audio. There's more performance for the dollar than ever. In speakers, but just about everything else, too. The lower-priced end of the market has seen the biggest benefit. It's incredible the level of performance available at such prices today.
The JBL Loft 30 & 40 are the best bang for your dollar. If you dig the marketing hype of the budget flavor of the month, go for it. Every new AJ creations are self claimed better than last, no matter what Speaker giant wants to be saved. Budget dollar = budget sound no matter how you slice it.
My son has a pair of JBL Loft 40s and they sound really good for a $38/pair speakers. Lacking in the bass as expected for bookshelf speakers of this size. But paired with a Velodyne sub, these JBLs sound equally as good as other bookshelf speakers I owned for hundreds more.
I have some Paradigm Titan's right now. A friend of mine used Atoms for years until they finally disintegrated.
I think they are the BEST bang for the buck. Only drawback of the Titan's is that the top-end is a little ragged and I am using a good integrated with it. Most people wouldn't care the least, though.
My family room home theater consists of a $50 computer loudspeaker. It is actually preferable to about $800 spent on my living room HT. Different venues, so just saying one can be pleased spending quite little.
So far, I am the only audiophile in the family: Audiophiles are evidently 'born' and not 'raised'!
It is not the entry level alone that has several good speakers. I can think of the $1500 level and the $3000 to $5000 floorstanders. The KEF50 and the Tritons have managed to raise the overall quality through their War Cry. Good for us if the prices of the fallen speakers come down.
Cheers
Bill
There has always been a war in the entry level speaker arena. I sold a ton of speakers in the mid-late 70s, and about 80 percent of them were "entry level" hi-fi.
There is also a war in so-called "high end" speakers which has been going on since the 70s, and continues to today.
So, what's your point, other than to promote JBL?
:)
I disagree, I was around back then, and yes, it was competitive in the entry level speaker arena, but nothing like it is now.
Quick, name me one speaker designer from the 70's, who was stolen by 3 different companies ?
LOL you can't, can you ?
But, Andrew Jones was stolen from KEF by Infinity, then stolen from Infinity by Pioneer, then stolen from Pioneer by Elac.
I own a pair of DM302 and definitely would not trade them for the inexpensive Pioneer or elac speakers. I guess B&W's entry point is ~$500 (600 series) and they left the sub 500 dollar bookshelf market. Too bad. I sure thought they did relatively well there.
I doubt if you will like the 600 series as much as the 302. I dont.
Bill
Why go to war when, most likely, 99% of them are coming out of the same factory in China?
$211 with shipping included, but still not bad.
Combined with room and synergy you can put together an amazingly riveting "entry-priced" system. I can't bring myself to call my system entry level because despite all the equipment I've had over the decades, I've never been so happy - mostly due to a switch to nearfield - but I tried many speakers in the position you see here and none could remotely touch the BS-22's in my 13x23 room. I'll be heading to a 60x25 loft in a couple weeks - but this year for the first time ever I don't think I'll prefer it to my nearfield system despite it's massive image size (not that the nearfield image is small - far from it). All I buy now is music - and I buy a LOT of that...
Religion is the world's oldest profession
The difference will be remarkable.
What you have there is a pair of headphones which don't sit on your head.
Audiophile stops buying equipment after 30 years - recommended advice from fellow audiophiles - change your setup! Predictable. Others may try it - may not like it - but I post in the hopes that even one finds the joy I've found within condo-living conditions. Wish I'd tried it 30 years ago, I've tried everything but during those decades. It did sound bizarre at first - but as I moved the speakers closer in, it tightened and I found myself more and more in a wonderland of music - headphones they are, and I love it.
Religion is the world's oldest profession
Edits: 04/24/16 04/24/16
That's not a nearfield setup. It's a near-ear setup! :-)
Gonna have to try that!
-Bob
I'd been waiting all my life for something like these - but now I don't need them
Religion is the world's oldest profession
I use a near field set up in my large shop. Speakers are 8' away and pointed right at the sweet spot to make an equilateral triangle. Your speakers seem to be pointed at each other, not what I would call near field orientation.
I agree, the imaging and sound stage are both great with near field. If done right the speakers just disappear.
Since I got my Fostex Powered Nearfield Monitors a few years ago, my main system is basically more for home theater now.
What are BS 22's ?
LOL - either my abbreviation was too short, or you've been out of the loop for a while! Pioneer linked below
Religion is the world's oldest profession
Oh, Those :) For some reason, I didn't recognize the model number.
They are good.
Seems these are always on sale. I got mine for $100/pair. I've seen them as low as $80/pair. Now they are $140/pair, at least at Fry's. But now they say 'while supplies last'. Is time running out for these bargains?Easily worth the $400/pair list price for the sound quality.
Edits: 04/20/16
I'm lucky. I live near Dennis Murphy. My kids system:A pair of modded Pioneer BS-22 $165
A Dayton 10 in sealed sub $95
A couple of caps for the high pass filter $12
A crazy good $272 full range systemIf only he didn't love the bass cranked.
Edits: 04/20/16 04/20/16
These are the very best low priced capacitors I have ever used. Much better sounding IMHO then Dayton's and Bennic's. Get the highest voltage ones they offer, for the value you need.
About time.
You are are no long talking....real world....with $2K-$3K speakers.
A Doctor, Lawyer, or CPA can afford them, but no one else in 21st century America.
Steve
to get Millennials in the game.
For all the moaning, groaning and class warfare about " only one percenters can afford the high end" , I've seen the cost of getting really good sound plummet since I was a teenager. And doing so may only mean acquiring speakers and an amp. Or simply active speakers.
In the bad old days, sources were dedicated appliances like turntables, tuners and tape decks that were usually planted in one spot. Today, your laptop/pad/phone device used for work or play doing fifteen other things just happens to play music as well from local or streamed content.
I'm an old boomer, but I finally retired my "fixed" turntable and digital source in the garage system. I just use my phone or one of my pads and stream from the music server, internet radio or XM. Yeah, there's still a twenty year old cassette deck there because I just haven't given it away yet!
I think what disappoints me the most is seeing the disappearance or sell off of the grassroots speaker companies that designed and manufactured some really terrific loudspeakers. Snell, Sound Dynamics, EPOS, Mirage, Allison and many more have been bought up, cut back or don't exist anymore. These brands are still popular in the used market but our economy has changed as well as consumers knowledge. Many younger individuals have never experienced the greatness of speakers like the Mirage M1, or the revolutionary design and overwhelmingly clean bass of the original Large Advent speaker. And many of these designs were affordable. I really miss those days.
...from what I've heard, many new speakers, which cost about the same in inflation-adjusted dollars, sound much better than those you mention.
I fondly remember my Dahlquist DQ-10s biamped with subs from 1978 but I know my current speakers blow them away.
Bob Carver had DQ 10's at his home, as well as B&W 801's. The 801's were never hooked up. Bob loved his DQ 10's, and Jon Dahlquist and him were very good friends.
Kevin Voecks of Snell is with Revel now, and Andrew Welker of Mirage went to Axiom.
Klipsch Heresy's, Magnepan, Vandersteen, even Shahinian, and... others.
All not necessarily entry level. I do belief that a lot of sub $500/pr speakers are a lot better that they were 10 years ago.
Every now and then there seems to be a new "Bargain" beauty. I still like the Boston A40's I bought in 1981. Though by now everything is not original on either speaker... except the grills. The box has been braced & damped, crossover slightly retuned & zobel added, woofers have new surrounds and the tweeters replaces (A couple times - OK sometimes I have played them too loud!)
"The hardest thing of all is to find a black cat in a dark room, especially if there is no cat" - Confucius
...and overwhelmingly clean bass of the original Large Advent speaker. And many of these designs were affordable. I really miss those days.
As for me, I continue to live my former 15 year old audiophile self. :)
The ELACs undoubtedly will image better, sound more transparent and coherent and possibly have a better mid-range but at the price of a loss of about 20dB of bass and perhaps some dynamics and more of a top end roll-off, as well. They will probably sound best pulled away from the walls by at least 3ft/1M.
I am not sure how easy to drive either speaker is, but with 100W+ that shouldn't be a problem in either case.
I am not condemning the ELACs. I love small 2-way monitors.
I haven't heard the new Elac Speakers in person, but i did see and hear them in YouTube videos from a show where Andrew Jones was demonstrating them. From the videos, they sounded a bit on the bright side to me, but I will reserve final judgement until I hear them in person.
LOL, you do realize that you are listening to your own computer speakers on YouTube videos not the ones in the video. You may want to look for new computer speakers, I have heard (not on YouTube!) that the Peachtree D5, D4 and DS4.5 currently on sale all sound really good and not bright at all.
These are what I am listening to on my computer. They are plugged into my sound card.
I know them like the back of my hand, and I can get some idea when I hear other speakers on YouTube, of what they sound like.
I like the Fostex PM.05 Nearfield Monitors a whole lot. They are the winners of my informal small powered monitor "shoot out"
They are accurate, yet still quite musical, as opposed to the ruthlessly revealing types of monitors.
I am expecting delivery of a pair of Elac Debute B5 speakers this week. I will post what I think of them after I give the a listen all weekend. If I don't like them, they go back.....
Please write in detail. Try driving them with a NAD 316 BEE like amplifier also.
Is it possible to order the B6 also and send back the one you like less or both?
Cheers
Bill
You are kidding right? You expect me to go through all this trouble to satisfy "your" curiosity? You have some nerve dude....
Yes, don't be afraid to send them back, and then let us all know what you thought of them ?
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