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I'm thinking about replacing my Magnepan 3.6R speakers. However, my preamp and amp setup is designed around them. So my question is: If I don't want to replace the rest of my system, what kind of speakers would do the job?My current setup is as follows: I'm using a DEQX HDP-3 unit for the pre-amp, active crossover, and room correction. This is a very flexible unit, so it shouldn't matter much as far as what type of speakers I get, but it'd be nice to get speakers that can take advantage of the crossovers.
More important are the Amps: I'm using four Class D monoblocks. For the mids+tweeters of the 3.6Rs, I'm using a pair of Bel Canto REF500M power amps (500W @ 4 ohms). For the bass panels, I'm using a pair of ICEPower 1000ASP modules (1000W @ 4 ohms).
I'd prefer not to sell/swap out those components. So basically, I'm looking for speakers that would work well with this setup -- in particular, the Class D power amps. (However, I could add another pair of monoblocks to go with a 3-way active crossover, since the DEQX unit has that capability.)
Added info: Total budget for new speakers is under $5000. I have a pretty big room -- about 22' x 20' with 10 foot ceilings, with a bathroom and a couple closets/nooks that tend to act as bass traps.
Musically, I want some BIG and PUNCHY BASS!! I'd love to be able to crank up some LOUD hard rock or electronic dance music and feel the bass punch me in my chest! That's something I've never had with Maggies, and I'm craving it.
So, with those parameters: Any advice?
Thanks,
Mike
Edits: 08/25/15 08/25/15Follow Ups:
Mike, given you want prodigious bass that you can feel in your chest & are coming from ribbon dipoles, I would look for a 2nd hand pair of Infinity IRS Beta's. The Betas need a lot of room and power, but you have both bases covered. You might need to stretch a bit, but the Betas would be a big upgrade from your Maggies imho.
Vitus SCD025, SIA025, Oppo BPD-103AU, Magico S5's, Taoc ASR racks + SCB-RS50g, Stillpoints Ultra 6's/Mini's/LPI's, Furutech GTX-D(G), Gigawatt PC-3 SE Evo, Jorma Prime pc's + xlr's/Statement sc's/Unity pc, Siltech Classic Anniversary rcas + HDMI
Edits: 09/13/15 09/13/15 09/13/15
You might want to consider an open baffle design from Spatial. For your needs definitely one with 2-15" drivers.....the M3 Turbo at around 2K, or the M1 Turbo at 4K. I've heard them demoed with Red Dragon digital amps( 500 watts@ 4 ohms) and the combination was impressive. The Spatials are 95 db efficient BTW.
This is the one that best meets your requirements, and the only speaker I know of that easily allows you to disable its internal networks for active drive.
Subwoofers add bass depth - the don't add midbass punch and if they do the subs aren't integrating properly. A drum kick is not the same as a movie car explosion so in home theater you get lots of thump but it does absolutely ZILCH for hard rock music, electronic music etc.
The best subwoofers for music are felt not heard - the entire idea is that they SHOULD BE sub-sonic and create a sense of ambiance or enhance the feeling not hearing end of the bass spectrum. They should not be serving as glorified midwoofers. And they certainly won't help Magnepans with midbass thwack. Magnepans as you know have their strengths which while they have some pluses - for the kinds of music I get the sense you like (cause I like that too) Magnepan is one of the worst speakers on the planet at reproducing. Just bad bad bad at this music. Better than ESLs though which isn't saying much.
"I want some BIG and PUNCHY BASS!! I'd love to be able to crank up some LOUD hard rock or electronic dance music and feel the bass punch me in my chest!"
Even with your high powered amps I'd be looking at some older school style speakers for this music. And before you laugh - you might START with auditioning the Cerwin Vega CLS215. They sound and measure good too and won't cost you nearly $5000.
I am not saying this will be your pick but I think it's a nice place to start with your music taste - THEN find something that is more refined - the CV treble is a little hot and it can sound uneven and a little cheap (like the way they look) but they are fun and that counts for a lot in my book. They're just so damn big and kinda tacky with the pink surrounds looking like they should be in a brothel someplace. You know you shouldn't want them but they keep drawing you in.
Audiophiles are too uppity to admit to liking CV but they create them as eviction notice loudspeakers (it's i their advertising). So what you have to do if you can't stomach their looks is to look at older school Altec 7, JBL (pictured) which can head up to the $5k range second hand.
But you lose some of what the ESLs are good at - holographic (spooky good inner detail) but it's worth the trade for much more involving bass, dynamics, treble reach and dynamics, midrange macro-dynamics, and overall visceral thunder. Generally - bigger speakers using 8 inch drivers or larger and higher efficiency speakers (even if you have bags of power in your amps).
If the old stuff really isn't your thing - then take a listen to the Gallo 3.5 for around $5k - that thing should blow you into next week and it looks kinda cool and modern. My concern there is they have discontinued the model and it seems they have dumped all their higher end offerings and are now going only home theater kind of stuff - it may be new products are coming or that they are in trouble - you'd have to check into that.
The Big Ohms like big power, play loud and deep and don't sound boxy.
A pair of ATC 10 in. 3 ways will rock.
I would consider a pair of Rythmic subs added to your pans first.
Your current set up is so Maggie centric it may be hard to get synergy with different speakers.
I agree with Pat belowTwo of these and a pair of refurbed pair of Tympani IVa
http://www.seaton-sound-forum.com/post/submersive-f2-the-same-but-
ifferent-5509423?trail=120your cake and eat it too
If you got the space
Bill
Edits: 08/26/15
How does one find these? They seem very rare, especially up here in the frozen north.
Thanks,
Jeremy
The salesman at my local audiofools shop is hard selling the new Paradigm Prestige 95F speakers, says they're perfect for generating big bass in big rooms. Anyone had any experience with those?
B&W's will be a little hot with class D
Bill
Having grown out of dipole panel speakers, I don't want to discourage you from considering forward radiating speakers such as those in the Paradigm Signature and PSB Imagine lines. You have plenty of power to drive them.
However, in all conscience, I have to ask you to consider a subwoofer for bass punch. I presume you like your Maggies otherwise, so a big subwoofer might give you what you want.
-----
"A fool and his money are soon parted." --- Thomas Tusser
I would consider getting rid of that monstrosity of a preamp before I would start speaker shopping. A much simpler design will reap huge benefits with resolution and transparency. Then you can look for the bass slam you seek.
Oz
Don't worry about avoiding temptation. As you grow older, it will avoid you.
- Winston Churchill
The DEQX HDP-3 is absolutely not a monstrosity of a preamp. It is in fact a fine highly musical and useful audio component. It is a real chore to properly calibrate and program, but if one has the intelligence and perseverance to properly use the component for speaker correction, room correction, time correction, phase correction and low level crossovers with multiamping it can change a good sounding stereo into a great stereo.
I use a DEQX HDP-3 to great effect and benefit with my DIY fully horn loaded triamplified speaker system. I suspect that those who hold your low opinion of the DEQX have never heard one properly programmed and applied.
Pro series from Tyler Acoustics?
I see a pair of used B&W Nautilus 802's in my budget -- Would these work well with my amps?
Edits: 08/25/15
I think they'd give you what you're after. Long ago, I went from small Maggies to B&W 804s because the Maggies wouldn't rock the way I wanted them to, at least in my setup at the time. The 804s were much better in that regard.
Kinda kidding here, but love the "eviction guarantee" inticement!.
They do get good reviews though, but I doubt that they're audiophiles.
...high performance subwoofers to your existing system to maximize your limited expenditure.
OK, well let's assume for the moment that I'm getting rid of the 3.6R's.
Big slamin' bass in a large room?
Previously owned OK?
I auditioned some Revel Performa3 F208 speakers today. How go they compare with the F52's? The F208's were OK, but I wasn't blown away or anything.
The F208 & F52 although both Revel, and, Performa, are two different animals. I was pretty shocked when I heard the P3 series. Actually, the 206 is the sweet spot in my opinion but the 208 would be better in a large room.
I would describe the F52 sound as similar to a studio monitor. It's neutral, goes deep if it's in the source material, they are bi-ampable but no way to defeat the internal crossover I'm aware of. They are capable of good resolution & detail, need current to get them jumping.
I will say, the bass is very dependent on the source, the F52 isn't going to lie or color the music. I've had friends ask where's my bass, I tell them it's their disc, then put on something I know has low end program for them.
I also, 2nd the ATC, disciplined bass like the F52 and very open mid to top. Coming from Maggie you might really enjoy the ATC presence.
B&W do well and your taste may lean to them so if that's what you like and nothing else does it for you, then follow your own ears.
I'd love to hear the F52's, because everyone raves about them, but I don't know anybody nearby who has a pair.
Alwayss a good practice to listen first. Does anyone in the area carry ATC? I forgot about them until mentioned here, I heard them at a show and was very impressed, ATC does a lot on the pro side, I remember thinking when I heard them they have a live presence to them and liking the bass as well as I did on my F52's. They were driven by ATC electronics.
I dunno man, I haven't even seen the F208, but I do feel strongly that it's not likely you'll find speakers that are overall better than your Magnapan's in the most important range, for what you want to spend.
I still think the JL subs would absolutely spank your room and do a very good job keeping up with your panels, but they're $5k for the set.
The best bass I've ever heard, in that it was very impressive, realistic, and without any other audible compromise, and actually hard to believe it was coming from an attractively sized enclosure, was the Vandersteen 5A
But that was before hearing the PTE Statement, but then we loose the attractively sized enclosure.
Best wishes, I hope you find what you're looking for.
That's to funny you mentioned that.
I had 3.6's with mye stands. Then went to B&W 801 Matrix III and then to Von VR4rs then to Revel F52. They have bass slam is spades, driven by my PASS X250.5.
They Image great and can play any music. My room is 28 wide 13 deep. I use sound absorption panels at reflection points.
They are a steal at $2500 to $3000.
I remember...
Yes, I would consider used. And I should add that my budget is a bit flexible, but definitely nothing over $10k.
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