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I recently bought these after reading great reveiws on the net, but I find these extremely bright, never been so disappointed before, it was nothing like the description of any of the reviews.
My pre is Accuphase CX260, Power Proton D1200, Rega Planet CD player, and all cabling is Van Den Hul.
Any idea as to why it sounds so bad?
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I have been a happy owner for 10yrs. However our respective systems are diametrically opposed- I use all tubes and vinyl. I run the Titus pr full range, and I cross in a pair of AR3a as subs. I get outstanding transient response, soundstage width and depth beyond the plain of the speakers and outstanding realism. Treble is clean, clear and extended. I do not hear the treble harshness you hear, but my tubes possibly match the speakers better than your SS ? I have my pair on stands, midway into a very large space, and listened to in the new field. Can you try a different amplifier ?
Best, Ross
I had the Triangle Celius 202, which I hated until I:
`Moved them much closer to the back wall (16"- 18")
`Spaced them slightly farther apart than equilateral
`Reduced toe-in to just a very few degrees
`Treated the back walls minimally behind and between the speakers
The 202 tweeter is pinpoint detailed (yes, a bit hot) and you don't want it assaulting you head-on. I never used a sub with the Celius. The Titus certainly may need one. I'd go with small and fast (8"-10" NHT, REL) used on the same plane as the speakers. The JL Audio 10"ers would be killer, but more costly.
ntntnt
Interesting, I use an old NHT 10" sub (SubOne) with my Tituses, chosen for its "fast" reputation, and it does IMO work great.
I've upgraded the tweeter cap to very good effect - smoother and more musical than the ~$1 or 50 cent cap that was in there. I spent $25 per speaker though on the caps, I think they're worth it.
...the less I expect to hear the same things the reviewers heard. I have no doubt they're reporting what they're hearing. I just find it relatively rare that I hear the same things. This applies not just to professional reviewers in print and Internet publications, but to reviews posted on the 'Net by every Tom, Dick and Harry. Been at this thing for more than 30 years; just now coming to this understanding!
-Bob
Edits: 03/03/15
Hi Bob, Yes my purchase decision was based on reviews, not a particular review but whatever review was available on the net.
But these sound super bad, low volume is ok, but past nine o clock position on your pre, and have couple of advil pills ready.
On the other hand, people who bought these, are in love with them, couple of reviews said that it was the "Best Speaker", they have ever heard.
When I heard a Triangle speaker (though a couple of years ago)...actually their top of the line (many thousands of dollars) it sent me scampering for the men's room. Super bright, and closed up.
Hi, acanuckkhan (A): I read your post about the impression you've received the first hearing your speakers Triangle Titus 202. This made me very curious and I've searched the net and here I leave an article I found, which I hope will be useful because it explains exactly a very similar situation to yours. Below I leave the address of this article: the best greetings and I apologize for my poor English:
http://www.tnt-audio.com/casse/titus202_e.html
Benjy Rios M
5.5" 8ohm midwoofer in a 2-way that is *rated* at 90db 1w/1m?Hmmmmm. HMMMMMM.
Ever wonder why 6" and 5.5" 2-way bookshelf designs can have sensitivities in the low to mid 80's? Hint: baffle step compensation and other forms of equalization. I do not think there *could* be baffle step compensation on that design... not according to the numbers provided anyways.
I would bet that is a 87 to 88db 1W/1m midwoof that *might* hit 90 in it's breakup region. Even if that region is a soft one, if that is the reference point used to match up the response to the tweeter, then for sure you're going to get a very bright voicing that is lean in the bass.
This is all theory and speculation though.
In-room measurements of the speaker itself and raw speaker responses would be required to make definitive statements. I just find it rather optimistic to have a 90db 1W/1m 2-way using a 5.5" woofer that would have the kind of baffle step compensation for the kind of tonal balance I like.
Put the speakers up against the wall and listen again. If the lean-ness reduces and the bass sounds better you have a (lack of) BSC issue. This can be corrected by (1) leaving speakers against the wall (yuck) (2) using a EQ - shelving filter for BSC or (3)... Back to the drawing board!
Audiophiles often think "2-way bookshelves can't sound as good as floor-standers". My theory on this is that they've heard too many 2-ways with inadequate (or totally missing) baffle step compensation. Then, they add subs to try and compensate which is a total misapplication of a sub, since BFC frequencies are in the bass and even mid-bass region. Trying to do this with a sub has users cranking the sub Fc up way too high, leading to the next generalization: subs don't integrate well. ;)
I have one 2-way 6.5" based system here, and WITH adequate BFC and use of a sub and I have no brightness issues, lean-ness issues nor "sub integration issues". Subs cross in at 4th order in and around 65 Hz.
For me, a 5.5" midbass is too small not because of how low it goes but because of how loud it goes. Once you get the thing eq'd for proper bass response there is "not enough if it left". 2-ways that are 82 - 86 db 1W/1m often require a beast of an amp, and in my mind then experience too much power compression issues to get to the kind of levels I often like to listen at. I just don't think 300W/channel into 84db speakers is the way to go, although some 'philes are happy with this approach. I'd rather get more sensitive speakers that require less amplifier horsepower. Small 2-ways with typical (or worse, somewhat anemic) amps just don't cut it for me.
Cheers,
Presto
Edits: 03/03/15
Not quite sure I understand all your points (especially going on 1 am), but the Titus is rather efficient (90dB/W/m? I don't know), the 'mid/woofer' runs with no crossover at all, and the tweeter has only a high pass filter on it (kicks in around 6kHz or so). Some reviewers ('Sam Tellig' at Stereophile) say the lack of a complex crossover makes it more low-powered (tube) amp friendly.
I don't know about that technically, but I use 8W SETs with no volume issues. Maybe using tubes is the answer for the OP (I've used SS as I said, with no problems though). Maybe the OP and others who find the speaker bright are just more sensitive to something than I am, no harm no foul, the speaker just isn't your cup of tea.
The impedance curve on these is actually really benign - the usual humps for the bass alignment, but it's basically 4 ohms minimum with a rise to about 10-12 ohms at ... I can't remember, somewhere in the treble, then back to 4 ohms thru 20kHz. I lost the graphs I had due to an HD problem, they're out there somewhere tho. Not many other measurements I've seen ... but everything I've see shows it to be not a strain on the amplifier.
I use mine about 7' out into the room, listening in the nearfield, about a 6' equilateral triangle and I think they sound great (with a sub coming in at ~50Hz). YMMV of course.
Rick:
The woofer ran "flat-out" with no eq would confirm there is no baffle step compensation. This is often a reason for smaller 2-ways to sound "lean" (a term for low end), but I am not sure this would necessarily make the voicing "bright" (a term for upper mid/treble).
The trouble with baffle step compensation on a speaker with a single midbass driver is you take a chunk out of the speakers top end to provide the "net" low end boost for the BSC.
In this case, if that 5.5 incher is just rolling off naturally, it might sound lean. Like I said, measurements (correct ones) would need to be done to confirm this.
Or, just a quick listening test! ;)
Cheers,
Presto
Ah, OK. Yes, certainly there is no BSC in this speaker. I don't find it lean sounding but maybe I don't know what that sounds like (or am just used to it ... I've had these for a LONG time!).
I somewhat recently added in a KRK ERGO 'room correction' device - it's EQ/correction is pretty mild, limited to +/-4dB, but it seems to have tightened up the bass response (and brought out more detailed bass) and generally things sound even better than before.
I don't know how much the OP is willing to experiment (with tubes?) or if it's just not worth it to him. I do know of several very happy Titus/Triangle owners out there so I believe the speakers are not inherently 'bad' sounding.
Most likely an impedance unhappiness with your amp or source. Or room problems.They have a biamp type connector on the rear. You could try adding your own Zobel network. Start with a 30ohm 10 watt or so resistor ACROSS the tweeter terminals.
If you have a Radioshack near by you can try this. They carry an 8ohm wirewound 8 watt resistor. Try that and listen if you have any improvement before you order more resistors.
charles
Edits: 03/03/15
https://www.google.com/search?q=Triangle+Titus+202+review for a bunch of stuff, including discussions from me ... there is another AA posting (see URL below) talking about getting the best out of these little beauties.
Dang, sorry you feel that way ... I can't say that they aren't bright, I don't hear them as such though. I've used them with Audio Analogue Puccini SE (bought as a 'set' in 2002 from Alan at AudioWaves (mail order)), then got my current Bottlehead 300B SET amps (used the Puccini as a preamp for a couple years) then got a McIntosh C220 preamp, now have a Parasound P 7 preamp (still with the 300B SETs).I briefly used a SS amp (Acurus A250? I think was the model) and liked it very much.
Can't help thinking it's not a good match with your other components ... but have no idea what to suggest. If any of them are perceived as 'bright' maybe swap in something that's more 'mellow' or 'smooth' sounding and see what you think.
I also use Analysis Plus Oval 9 speaker cables, which seem known as 'neutral' and 'revealing' in every review I've read (and I love them).
I've rebuilt the high pass filters to the tweeters in mine (the 'woofer' runs completely unfiltered). The mod made a nice difference IMO but don't know if it'll 'fix' your problem.
Being so 'old' I can't imagine they aren't 'broken in'. I found them bass-shy when I got them, after several days the bass really opened up. I think they're amazing speakers for the money or even more.
I'm itching to try some Ref 3A MM DeCapos one of these days, similar design etc. but apparently even more revealing and musical.
Other things may be: placement, furnishings, room dimensions ... ???
Good luck!
Edit/PS: post the same thing to the forum below, there are at least a couple of Titus 202 and other such vintage Triangle speaker owners there, hopefully someone will give a response that may help you figure what's wrong. Are the speakers damaged in any way? I don't see any degradation in my speakers' surrounds etc., but maybe something is going on in the pair you have that is causing some problems.
Edit 2/PPS: I don't know ... but JA thought the Rega Planet CD player was a bit 'tipped up' in the treble http://www.stereophile.com/content/rega-planet-cd-player-ja-february-1998-part-2 ... what were your previous speakers, and could they have been a little mellower? I HAVE read that the Tituses are a little 'hot' for some people, actually. MAYBE it's just that you need a few more days to become accustomed to their sound.
Maybe try another CD player or source ...
Edit 3: Can't imagine the Accuphase being anything but smooth and musical ... don't know anything about the other components tho (nor really about the Accuphase, but the brand has a stellar reputation).
Edits: 03/02/15 03/02/15 03/02/15 03/02/15
Rick,
I went from triangle Comete to De Capos. No comparison, the capos have the detail, bass, air, etc a very worthy upgrade
DeCapos ... droooooooollll !!!! I've wanted to try those for a very long time. One of these years ... :DI have read elsewhere about them being worthy upgrades to the Titus/Cometes, they're very much alike in design in several aspects. Good to have another 'verification' of my desires!
PS: Nice system! I'll stick with my current pre/amps if I can get the DeCapos, should be a good match. UNfortunately maybe, I'm moving to a new house and will lose my current 23 x 13 x 10 listening room (living/dining combo) in favor of a ~square 12.25' den ... hmmmmm. We'll see, but I'm planning to stick with my nearfield setup and get some room treatment to tame the resonances (and maybe go to an angled or diagonal type setup). Should be interesting.
Edits: 03/04/15
the De Capos work well in near field with low watt amps. still crisp and detailed at low volumes
using 4 watts here
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