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I bought a pair of these cheap just for curiosity. They are a pretty aggressive speaker. So, I decided to open them up to look at the internals. Here is what I found:
Very cheap Chinese drivers and caps; Lamp cord for wiring with very sloppy soldering; poorly glued mdf with drips everywhere; drill holes for grill cover inserts open and not plugged so essentially front porting with back port with grills removed; veneer over top of mdf so not one piece of wood as had been reported; so probably less than 100 bucks worth of internals and who knows what the box cost from China. I plan on using them for a DIY project! So, these retailed for $1300 and less than half that Internet direct now. So there you have it - not as bad as white van - but not very good either. YMMV!
Follow Ups:
You may want to hunt that one down, just for completeness' sake :-)
And other than the glue drips and cheap Chinese drivers, sounds EXACTLY like the view I got when I opened up a pair of PSB 600s many years ago (add to that the fact that the wires were also terminated with crimp connectors from crossover to the bottom end of the Vifa line up of drivers)...
The sound however, for the price (and my level of audio awareness at the time) wasn't half bad!
Oh, yeah- they were made in Canada...
As with any product, YMMV!
Dman
Analog Junkie
Maybe a better way to say it is "pitched up" dynamics - certainly not a laid back design - but that just may be me! I actually forgot to mention in my original post that the speaker wires were terminated with cheap crimp connectors - and were all very loose fitting. Not good!
I had the middle version (signatures?) with the upgraded tweeter.
They looked nice, but I didn't really enjoy them that much.
would have helped your case.
you're saying you don't believe him and need photographic evidence?
E
T
Actually I tend to believe the OP, based on my own experience on interior examination of at least 2 speaker systems.
My favorite is the first point of interface; the wiring from the speaker terminals to the crossover board(s).
It's just that we all may have different opinions on what is cheap-shit and sloppy. (But enough about my dating habits...)
and not because I don't believe the OP, but because pictures are sometimes worth more than words.
Indeed I agree with that statement! Plus I'm just an electronics nerd and like seeing these things. Then I can privately toot my own horn because of my elite soldering skills! The experience would be self elevating : )
E
T
No case intended - just my observations to share. The shells will make a fun DIY project.
Nobody in their right mind would pay $1000 for a pair of LSA-1's but then what audiophile is in their right mind?
Certainly not Mr. James L. Darby of StereoMojo who raved about these speakers in the review linked below:
The way I read the above statement, which might not be the way its writer intended, was that the offshore manufacturer had $200 in parts and labor in the pair of speakers.
HOWEVER, in my example, the US importer would pay circa $400 for that pair of speakers and also on top of that, customs, insurance, and freight. The manufacturer has to mark up parts and labor 100% (double the total) in order to cover overhead and provide a profit.
The US importer then has to mark up his costs, such as exhibiting at CES and other shows, advertising, and the time and logistical expense of arranging reviews and potential-dealer trials, to get dealer cost.
The dealer then pays that, and marks the product up to retail, out of which he has to pay salesmen's commissions or salaries, and all his overhead items.
Lest anyone think that audio is an outrageous ripoff, I am told that as a general rule, sellers of fur garments and sellers of name-brand real pianos have higher dealer margins that audio dealers receive on loudspeakers (cables are usually higher margin). So, if you pay $50,000 for a nice piano, the dealer paid $25,000 for it. But, most days of the week, the piano dealer does not sell a nice big expensive piano, and keeping such a place open costs money all week long.
ATB,
jm
When an imported product comes in, and then goes to a second-party retailer (brick/mortar or internet), and then is sold to a consumer, that is called triple-tier distribution.
It is a system that trades off economic efficiency in the interest of wider consumer-choice options.
Henry Ford's Model T kept getting better in terms of build quality of the same car and cheaper, because Ford the man worked on making the car cheaper to build rather than more capable or fancier for the sake of being more capable or fancier. The car was sold from the factory only painted black, because the black paint dried fastest and a different color would slow down the assembly line. What we have today in commercial audio is the opposite of the Model T business model.
It is inherently economically inefficient that Wilson Audio, who makes excellent speakers, has to square off in the marketplace with Sonus Faber, Wilson Benesch, Aerial, ATC, Revel, Dynaudio, and other brands. But that is what the marketplace seems to want.
If all the timepiece lovers in the world could agree on what the perfect watch is, that watch could be bought factory-direct for a small fraction of what prestige watches cost, but that is not going to happen.
So, if a speaker sells for $1000/pr. retail (regardless of "sucker" list prices), the retailer usually paid $600 plus shipping. The importer paid around $400 plus Customs, Insurance, and Freight. Parts and labor were about $200, and the rest went to overhead, NRE, and profit.
What we are seeing today is that when companies have audiophile aspirations and also great market reach, they can make very nice products at very fair prices, Pioneer's small speakers designed by Andrew Jones being an example. But, in a free market, not everybody wants those, and making those people (who might be misguided or suffering from false consciousness) happy, costs more money.
jm
Really excellent reply - thank you!
I used to have a set of LSA 1 Signatures. Now these were the upgraded
versions built years ago when LSA had a dealer network. Granted
I did not open the cabinets and look at the innards. But I did not
find these speakers aggressive at all. In fact these where the best
monitors I could find in the ~$1K market at the time in local stores.
I like them better than Paradigm Studio 20s, Aerial 5Ts and several
others. I found the cabinets to be solidly made and the drivers to be
decent quality. My opinion of the model I had echoed the reviews
of the speakers I found at the time on the internet.
Time has passed since then, and from what I have heard they have
dropped the price. I have not heard the current model so I won't
comment on them. But I can say the original models made years
back were decent speakers IMHO.
I had a similar bad experience with a very popular audiophile speaker
brand made in Canada. In all of my year of audio I have never seen the
spider assembly separate from the frame on a woofer. And the
manufacturer would not give me a free replacement woofer, they
sold me one at a discount. When I opened this made in Canada
so called audiophile speaker I saw exactly what you described,
cheap drivers and a crossover board that looked like something a
kid would build in a middle school science fair. All of this
explained why the speakers sounded like CRAP. I won't name
the company or the model since I have no desire to start a
flame war.
And the name of that speaker mfgr. is what???? Once again, someone denigrates a product but doesn't have the balls to NAME that product. Totally worthless and a waste of perfectly good electrons...
-RW-
I agree. This is the second thread in a few days where the poster refuses to name the manufacturer/brand. What's the point, it kinda defeats the purpose doesn't it.
Edits: 12/21/14
The Original Poster was commenting on the build quality of the LSA-1.
It was in a post of reply that a poster chose not to name a brand, and that is, IMNSHO, far less of an offense if even one at all.
I was trying to be civil and not start a flame war. If you want to know what brand it was send
me a message and I will tell you.
Otherwise fuck off!
Well, how very gentlemanly of you! If you're going to make a denigrating post, at least have the stones to name who you are denigrating. And immediately resorting to foul language simply makes you appear small-minded and lacking of education.
I can't wait to see your response...
-RW-
You seem so interested in wanting me to name the company who built
the speakers I did not like. I can only assume so that you and
others can debate me and waste all of our time. I am entitled to
my opinion just like you. Read how I phrased my response to the
OP. I stated my opinion on the model I had and did not comment
on him or his character or anatomy. And then I related a similar
tale. The difference being that I was not going to name the
brand model so as to not start a flame war that I had no intention
in participating in.
My point was that some of the more regarded companies in hifi sell
cheaply made crap just like some of the smaller companies who
offshore manufacturing in China and get bashed here all of the
time. I guess I should have been more clear on that.
I stand by what I said, if you want to know who it was send me
a message and I will respond, regardless of your disparaging remarks
about my balls or my education. You got the FO because you
deserved it.
Another member already did just that and I gave them to the details. Instead you posted a rather combative response and you got one back.
I hope you are happy.
I understand you not wanting to get into a flame war but you kind of are in one anyway.
I think the problem is that because you said the company is Canadian - the otherwise "good" Canadian companies may be lumped into being rubbish.
One guy will think Paradgm and another PSB and another Coincident and another Totem or Reference 3a.
So if your post was about PSB it is probably just easier to say it was PSB because now poor Totem might be assumed to be poor just because they're Canadian.
And companies sometimes put out a bad sample just as car makers with elite reliability ratings put out a clunker.
These DIY are as good as, or better than any on the market:
“Somebody was always controlling who got a chance and who didn’t. - Charles Bukowski
Edits: 12/19/14
Madisound offers kits with quality drivers and crossover components, as well as cabinets. Zalytron also offers good quality and interesting driver kits.
In 60+ years as an audiophile/music lover, I have never bought a factory-built speaker system.
$70 plywood, $75.00 veneer, $200 in crossover components, $1300 drivers and horns, $15 R-13 and $15 Shellac: $1675 for speakers I've had as mains for over 5 years.
I keep coming back from shows and demos with the opinion the design can't be beat.
At the request of the Moderators,
This space has been deleted
Yep, totally forgot π's
“Somebody was always controlling who got a chance and who didn’t. - Charles Bukowski
Don't think what you found is especially unusual. Corners get cut to save money and maximize profits all the time. The loudspeaker market is especially competitive with companies coming and going all the time. Lots of manufacturers in China will build completed speakers or components like drivers and cabinets to anyone's specifications. And they're cheap too. As a part time cabinet builder I can't possibly compete with ready-made cabinets from China that can be purchased from some of the supply houses like Parts Express. Cabinets that look very similar the the LSA-1's can be bought for less than $300/pair. If one can buy direct from the manufacturer in China they have to be had for about $100/pair or even less. And for the most part the quality is amazing for the money, dripping glue notwithstanding. Chinese drivers are everywhere and they are cheap too but the quality is pretty good. Not Scanspeak or Audio Technology quality, but great bang for the buck. I think if the average consumer could get behind the scenes they would be as shocked as you were at what heavily advertised, highly reviewed, and cosmetically attractive loudspeakers actually cost at the OEM level. But, one must make a profit to stay in business.
And yet despite the look on my face, you're still talking.
Edits: 12/19/14
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