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Hi
i am quite interested in the Tannoy DC concept
Of course not all are made equal but i read about a tendency of the DCs to give an "honk" effect on voices
Is that true or is limited only to some cheaper models ?
Or may it depend on amp quality ?
I think that in the past Tannoy DC monitors have been used in radio production like in BBC and similar places, where voice quality was important.
For me a speaker not good with voices is a wrong speaker.
Thanks a lot for any kind advice.
Kind regards,
bg
Edits: 11/24/14Follow Ups:
you are listening to a Cars album. Nyuk nyuk nyuk!
ET
For a lively, relatively accurate and easy to drive speaker; however, for the money they cost there are other reasonable alternatives that might sound better to you.
The bottom line is, save your money until you can afford something that will deliver what you are obviously craving.
A Tannoy would not be a bad choice but they are not without their colorations. IMO, they are not nearly as good with voice and acoustic instruments as a good ribbon or ribon hybrid speaker. If you really want an uncolored speaker then you need to look at finding a pair of used Apogees, either of the full ribbon sort or their Centaur hybrids (my friend has the Centaur major and it is very impressive). The German horn maker, Odeon also makes a superior product to Tannoy, IMO, less colored and at least as dynamic...but pricey.
There is a very nice ribbon hybrid speaker for sale in Switzerland (you are in Italy, right) for a very fair price that will deliver the goods except for deep bass. I suspect it is the sound you want and it sounds much more natural with acoustic instruments and voices than ANY Tannoy I have heard (and I have heard their best efforts a number of times). If you are interested in that speaker (It is even made by an Italian company called Relco) send me an email and I will give you the details (I do not know the seller but I know where to look for it).
Ribbons are nice, though.
I doubt that anyone ever claimed that ribbons are the best solution for recording studios and other commercial applications. But, for home audio enthusiasts interested in bringing that "breath of life" to home audio playback, ribbons can be an excellent choice.
I think it is pretty bold to say that no studios use ribbons. I am sure there are examples.
Hi and thanks for the valuable reply.
A very interesting concept that of the Apogee Centaur.
I see from the picture the separate bass box and the ribbon driver on the side and i wonder which is the cut frequency of this 2 ways.
I read that the quality of the ribbon is not fully matched by the bass ... but i think this is just normal.
I have listened to some old Martin Logan with a similar sensation.
The Apogee ribbons are very famous for their quality.Actually i am from Italy but in Norway now for still another year or so
Then i think i will go back home
Also here i am moving to another flat
I am here to gather advices mainly
Tannoy are really interesting and with many lovers around but i understand now not completely "true" to the signal
The Apogee concept seems also a good idea for a DIY solution.
I have seen some ribbons on ebay.com lately
i have to think a little more.
Thanks again.
Kind regards,
bg
Edits: 11/26/14 11/26/14
Yes, the Centaur is a very good speaker. It helps the sound a lot that from about 400Hz to 20Khz the ribbon is doing all the work. This means you get a very box free presentation without all the attendant colorations. The bass design is a sealed box for better impulse and damping...this matches the ribbon far better than a vented box design. Finally, rather than put the woofer under the ribbon they put it beside the ribbon, which helps with sound dispersion characteristics.
It is a very well thought out design and sounds really and truly superb...not just pleasant but accurate as well with tons of natural resolution.
No speaker is actually true to the signal. If trying to get there, forget it. Just find a set of speakers that come close to being satisfying for hours of listening with no fatigue and then refine their presentation with a synergistic amp. Guys with extremely deep pockets never find that perfect speaker.
Don Brian Levy, J.D.
Toronto ON Canada
Hi and thanks for the advice
I have listened and very liked indeed some very good (i think) Tannoy models
The Eaton for instance ... great !
and also the much more expensive and new Stirling SE
I have always got the feeling that the sound maybe were not 100% "pure and true" to the signal but very very pleasant indeed. Love that sound.
Nevertheless i had also the impression, in both cases, that the cabinet is not at the same level of the drivers
In both cases i heard some boxyness that usually makes the sound less clear and precise
The paper cones seem indeed more alive than plastic ones.
Thanks again for your advice.
Kind regards,
bg
I do not agree with the poster above...there are speakers that are significantly truer to the original signal than others.
Vocals are perhaps the best part of Tannoy DC -- though I also love them for their all-around performance. I've had the 10"/12" pepperpot drivers get a tad searing up top, when paired poorly with gear (exacerbated by bright recordings) -- but not yet on the 15" pepperpot Canterbury SE. And none of them ever even hinted at honky to me. I would've heard it by now after several years with various DC models.
Hi and thanks for the valuable advice
No more doubts about the sound quality of the TOTL DCs
But i wonder if something good intrinsic maybe of the DC concept is available also in the cheaper units.
I tend to think so even if i understand that paper cones sound is (much?)better than that of treated plastic cones.
I do not know about the tweeters and their design.
I end saying that i like the DC concept a lot indeed.
And i cannot explain why is not more popular.
Maybe is expensive to build ?
For instance ... lately the Kef ls50 model, another coaxial design, has received a lot of praise.
Why not scale it up ?
I would love to see an entire range of Kef coaxials ... from 4" to 15" based on the same design
Thanks again.
Kind regards,
bg
Edits: 11/25/14
You need to listen for yourself. We all have different ears.
What will sound like unbearable honkiness to someone, might just sound perfect for you because your ears will focus on other qualities.
I love my speakers but I know a lot of people would hate them (horns).
Hi and thanks for the kind reply
Actually tastes are different
I am sure that also the amplification can play a fundamental role
If a speaker is honky with tubes for instance is definitely honky with everything else
Solid state can sound good and band
I remember a review of an old Yamaha NS1000 that with some solid state amps were just unbearable but with tubes sublime.
I think that this kind of speakers is a godsend because they can be extremely helpful to discriminate the good amps from the bad ones.
If they are good on them they are really good.
These speakers are another of my dream
But i have to stick with reality ...
Thanks a lot again.
Kind regards,
bg
Edits: 11/24/14 11/24/14
You are on the right track. The large DCs with doped paper cones are the most musical speakers I've heard and they are used in studios where the best recordings are produced. I've heard that Paul Simon has a SOTA in his home with the same speakers that I use in my listening room. Male and female vocals are magical. Bass is perfect. Transients are vivid.
Fostex and Lowther have the unbearable honk you refer to.
None I have heard were honkers. In fact, some of the best sound I have ever heard have come from systems based on the best Lowther drivers.
Have also listened to a number of single driver Fostex speakers and a few had a slight nasalness, not quite a honk. Usually these were still works in progress and never heard the final forms.
Don Brian Levy, J.D.
Toronto ON Canada
Lowthers are known for have a rather aggressive upper midrange and lower treble...measurements bear this out.
Oh, that makes more sense.
Don Brian Levy, J.D.
Toronto ON Canada
Hi and thanks and wow ! your speakers are really impressive !
I understand that " doped paper cones " are the one to look for
I have heard once the Eaton and i like them quite a lot
Next time i will skip on the plastic cone DCs
I just hope they will be no much worse of the paper ones
But the price was so inviting ... around 250 USD with shipping
If i look at what is available new ...
Thanks again. I will keep in mind the advice on paper cones next time.
Kind regards,
bg
Owning Tannoys for 40+ years.
I have Yet to hear the claimed Honk .. ever!
I'm thinking that it's some foolish story concocted by haters and it's only a few years old claim, as far as I can tell.
Tannoys are exceptional throughout their operating range.
In fact I've yet to hear a more articulate beautifully balanced speaker.
Which I why I have Yet to replace mine.
The things sound good even on poor gear, yet with 'good' gear they can be breathtaking.
Take note: Garbage in = Garbage out has palpable meaning with these things
PS; the tulip wave guide was/is a cost cutting bodge... the earlier machined Pepperpot horn throat sounds better.. noticably so and is 'still' fitted to their flagship drivers.. as support for that wee factoid.
Hi and thank you very much for your kind and helpful reply
Actually to be more precise the guy was saying that differently from what were the rumors he did not find the speakers very honky
I am sure that these were the cheapest and with plastic cones, hardly the better DCs
I liked the Eaton in the past sporting a paper cone 10" DC driver
I did not like the cabinet even if i did not peep inside
Maybe with some bracing/side panels damping they could sound even better
But also stock i liked them very much
Next time
Thanks again.
Kind regards,
bg
Now that makes for a good speaker in my book. I always felt a great speaker can make even crappy recordings and stereos sound good.I always cringe when I read "reveals poor recordings easily". I always felt it bring out the best of ANYTHING.
Hump and all they are great speakers. Go for them!
charles
Edits: 11/24/14
Ideally you should audition these speakers and make up your own mind, but if that is not possible, there are lots of youtube videos featuring Tannoy speakers (though perhaps not the exact model you are looking at).
I personally don't hear a "honk" or cupped hands coloration with any Tannoys but rather a certain "shoutiness" which is a different (and less severe) coloration. Not all ears hear the same though and what might be shouty to me might not be shouty to someone else.
Hi and thanks a lot for the valuable reply
I understand that the amplifier choice is decisive. Many listeners prefer tubes with Tannoy i guess because tubes can tame some eccesses especially in the mid-high.
Sorry for a non related question.
I see from your system that you use a Panasonic blue-ray player that " Sounds remarkably natural and realistic with voices and film scores "
Which model is ? have you tried it in the stereo system ?
Thanks a lot again.
Kind regards,
bg
Hi. Based on my studies of Tannoys, they do seem to have features that mate well with tube amps such as high impedance (especially for the larger single DC drivers) and high sensitivity.
I can't remember the model number of the Panasonic Blu-ray player. I have had it for about two years. Yes...it sounds very good but every other blu-ray player (that I have heard) also sounds good. The problem is that the Panasonic no longer recognizes blu-ray discs (and therefore won't play them).
I have a Sony Blu-ray player that also stopped working after two years of very light use. The blu-ray players seem very cheaply built. They will not last very long. I would not pay a lot for any player (based on my experience) but they do all sound good. I love blu-ray discs.
Don't buy cheap BR players. The Oppos are built to last for many years. And they retain their value on the used market better than any other players...
-RW-
I have an Oppo too. It developed a host of problems (principly the disc drawer would not open) so I returned it to Oppo for repair. It came back with a working disc transport (thanks Oppo). It worked normally for about a month before it stopped recognizing the SACD layer of most SACDs.
I just want to throw my hands up at this point. The Oppo was repaired in May and the idea of sending it back a second time...well I am not sure I am going to bother.
That if you contacted Oppo and told them your story, they would have you ship the unit back and fix it for sure - at no cost to you, including the shipping. My dealings with Oppo's customer service have been among the best I've ever experienced.
You should at least give them a phone call and see what they say...
PS: And please let us know the outcome...
-RW-
Hi and thanks for the kind advice
Actually i was thinking more to a TOTL model from Sony or Panasonic
Denon is much less common here
In particular i like very much the best one from Panasonic
I am interested in the ability to stream the A/V content stored in a NAS in particular
If the sound and video quality is what i read ... the results must be very very good indeed.
I am thinking seriously to buy one.
Thanks again.
Kind regards,
bg
Edits: 11/25/14
Impedance very much depends on how old the Tannoys in question are.
HPDs for example are officially 8Ohm but the tweeter remained unchanged and is a 16Ohm unit.
215DMT and FSM with their auxilliary bass driver are 4Ohm in the bass and 8Ohm for the treble if you choose the option which runs the two woofers in parallel (2way operation).
Neither of which appears to be ideal for tube amps with output transformers.
When I first got my LRMs I used a 50W amp which seemed enough for a 92dB speaker but then I changed to a 250W amp which made the previous amp sound anaemic even at the same volume levels. Generally Tannoys, from HPD onwards at least, sound a lot better using large SS amps.
Hi and thanks again
Tubes seem to me to have a soothing effect on speakers harshness/hardness that the average solid state units lack
But i do not like the bass with tubes. Is too rounded.
Speaking of blue ray players i guess the TOTL have better mechanics maybe longer lasting
But good players like the Oppos start at around 6-700 euros
I do not have many BR but i have seen some concerts on BR and they are very impressive ... actually wonderful.
Anyway following your advice i will skip on cheaper models.
Thanks again.
Kind regards,
bg
For $18k I you could do better. Personally for that kind of scratch I would shop where I could audition them with MY stereo.
Traditionally full range drivers do have some sort of "hump" somewhere in the audio spectrum. Just can't be helped when you are making the "perfect" driver.
Hi and thanks for the valuable reply
I am in the process of buying an old pair of 609 mk II for what i think is a very good price
Then looking for opinion on this very old speaker there was a guy mentioning this honk effect in the midrange that i intend like a "megaphonic" effect.
But i have also the strong feeling that this applies maybe only to the cheapest DCs, not the good one.
So i would like to understand if this effect is typical of the concept or depends on the execution.
I tought Tannoy were very good in the midrange but now i do not know for sure.
For me midrange quality is very important.
Thanks again.
Kind regards,
bg
Edits: 11/24/14
Erm.. Frankly Don't bother.
Only a glimpse of what a real Tannoy sounds like
BUY Tannoy Monitor Golds Or HPDS in the absence of Golds.
MASSIVE performance differences involved. Yup Mo'$$
But these are buy once in a lifetime drivers.
You will Never needs upgrade again.
Hi and thanks and actually the price difference is huge so i guess the quality
I heard the old Eatons sporting a 10" HPD DC and they were very good
I loved them but not the cabinet ... just a box nothing more.
Next buy will be serious ... no more side moves.
Thanks again.
Kind regards,
bg
Tannoys are not full range drivers.
They are co-axial 2ways.
The honk disappeared with the introduction of a notch filter as part of the crossover sometime in the early '60s.
With the introduction of the tulip waveguide in 1990 the notch filter became redundant as the cause of the honk had been removed thanks to CAD.
I hope the notch filter was removed. I've tried a few designs with notch filters and WOW, did it crap up the sound. Or it just may have been the sound was crappy and the filter couldn't remove all the "noise". That was back in my metal cone dazes.
Either way I avoid anything with a nasty spike before or after designed.
charles
It's not a spike, more a wide(ish) hump.
Tannoys had that in common with the vast majority if not all pre-CAD horns.
Dropping 2-3dB with an medium Q in the right part of the frequency spectrum sorts it out nicely.
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