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After getting some new amps (Quicksilver Silver 90's) for the living room I decided to put the QS Mini Mites in the bedroom, & decided to upgrade the speakers as well from B&W DM601's to some Klipsch reference speakers. I "was missing" the RB5-II's I sold some time ago, but didn't want to pay full price for a new set of speakers if I could get a nice used set. I saw some RB5-II's for a decent price, but they were scratched up! So I settled for a set of RB25's that were really nice looking except for a broken binding post on 1 speaker which still made good contact. The shipper sent them Canada post & somewhere between there & Las Vegas NV one of the woofers actually broke off the frame & the magnet was bouncing around inside the cabinet! I have resolved the problem with the seller, gotten the new woofer & am listening to the speakers now! What I'm getting at is why would Klipsch use a cheap plastic basket on a reference speaker which they must certainly be making enough on to use cast aluminum! Has anybody ever heard of this kind of thing happening? I would advise anybody looking to buy used Klipsch speakers with plastic baskets to think twice if they have to be shipped long distances!
Follow Ups:
The charm of Klipsch speakers is their high sensitivity - typically close to 100 dB. This makes them great for tubes. (The B&W 601 is about 90 db.)I bought RB5-II for 2A3 3.5 W WrightSound MonoBlocks, which still run them in my study.
My upstairs system now uses Heresy III with PrimaLuna Dialogue 4 amp with Mullard (New Sensor) tubes.In both cases, the Klipsch speakers are very smooth and natural sounding.
In the store, mated with a cheap source and amp, the Heresy III sounded terrible. At home, they sound great.
I can see that the high sensitivity of the Klipsch would allow them to be abused as a "blue collar" RocknRoll speaker with high power solid state. If that's what you like, go for it.
But, the Heresy have been around since 1957, the age of tubes, and the RB-5 are in that tradition. That's their best use.
Edits: 09/01/14
I use to sell both of these speakers and I must say IMO you made a huge downgrade. Yes the Klipsch are more efficient but that is the only thing they have over the B&W's. Klipsch speakers jump out at people and punch them in the face. I can't tell you how many times I switched between B&W's and Klipsch and the customer went "WOW them Klipsch sound awesome" and in a short time retract that statement. They sound good at first. I find them very fatiguing to listen to for more than a few minuets. Over the years I have owned about 7 pairs of Klipsch. After I purchased my first pair of B&W's I never looked back.
Klipsch sold out many years ago. They are all about profit these days. Their speakers are made very poorly and down right crude. Take a look inside them and the B&W's and compare. B&W's are far more advanced and too my ears sound so much better.
IMO
If you want to say that the RB25 is a downgrade from the 601, then I totally agree. The RB5, which is what the OP was actually looking for, was/is an upgrade over the 601 in my opinion, and certainly over the RB25s. The RB5 was a superb sounding speaker.And then you slide into this broad comparison of ALL Klipsch speakers and ALL B&W speakers as if there aren't dozens of models of each. So which ones did you compare? Should be really easy to list them all out since you owned them.
I owned Klipsch KLF 20s for 12 years and loved them. I also had a pair of B&W CDM1SEs for about 5 years and they never sounded right to me. The tweeter was always irritatingly noticeable, even with CJ electronics, including the wonderful Premier 17LS tube preamp. But some B&Ws sound quite nice, even in my humble opinion. I found the 601 and 602 to sound dull as can be, though at least their tweeter didn't drill holes through my head. The CDM2 was a sweet little B&W that was often over looked. I wish I'd kept those over the CDM1SEs.
I now have Dynaudio Focus 160s and love them, but the Klipsch were superb for far less money. I still own a pair of Heresy IIs.
Klipsch has been acquired, but for now they're still making the Heritage line in Arkansas. They are no more all about profit than they ever were, or than any other business is or should be. Time will tell what direction their new owners take them, but they were only just acquired a year or two ago I think.
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"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."
Edits: 08/31/14 08/31/14 08/31/14 08/31/14
Thanks for your well written response as it relates to the different Klipsch and B&W's.
Is there a quantifiable difference between the Klipsch RB 5 and the RB 5 mk II ?
Thanks.
........I was a vegetarian for 15 minutes... until the main course.
For the the RB5 II, Klipsch switched to Monster Cable for the internal wiring (for the jumper cables too, I believe), while cherry wood veneer was added to the list of available finishes. That's about it, so I'd imagine that the sonic diffs between the two versions are negligible.
Edits: 09/01/14
Also, they dropped the mahogany veneer on the RB5-II, which I thought was a shame.
You could actually get the KLFs in mahogany. Mine was medium oak because that was what was available and Klipsch was stopping production right when I bought mine, but I always wished I could have found a pair in mahogany.
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"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."
Those were some pretty sweet budget floorstanders, as I remember them. They had a different sound than the other Klipsch speakers of the time. I especially liked the big KLF 30s, which sounded better to me than the RF-7s that came after them.They had some problems with those large cabinets, though, as they weren't the strongest ever made. The back panels were known to loosen up after a few years of of high SPL party music...
Edits: 09/01/14
I went through 2 pairs of KG5.5 and also 2 pair of KLF30's all with cabinet failures. I had many quality problems with the KLF30's. Finally sold them. The 30's are much better than the RF7's. The 7's sound like nails on a chalk board.
You had bad luck. I used to post a lot on the Klipsch forum from about 1999 through 2003 or so, and the glue failure was a known problem for the earlier models, and Klipsch fixed it. My KLF20s were made in 1998 or so, and I never had any issues with them. And for those who did have problems, it was an easy fix of re-gluing.I preferred the KLF series to the Reference series because they were the last of the modern three way Klipsch (aside from the super high end Paladium series anyway). They were kind of like having Cornwalls with a more contemporary physical profile. But I didn't think the Reference sounded too bright, if paired with good equipment anyway. Again, a matter of opinion.
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"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."
Edits: 09/01/14 09/01/14
What they lack in refinement and micro-detail they make up for in macro-dynamics. The sound is big and warm, great for Rock music. Cabinets are not the best, but at least the grills are sturdy (unlike the Reference series grills). Some of the newer Klipsch speakers don't sound this good, IMO.
They have excellent dynamics. The KG 4.2's had a 10in woofer and a 12in passive? I believe my brother had them years ago.I thought the 3.5 were very balanced for a Klipsch. They sound better than the 5.5's I had and my brother has.
Edits: 09/01/14
My 4.2s have two 10" (active/ passive) in a sealed cabinet. One of the sweetest models in the KG lineup, I believe...
OK I remember them. My brother had the 3.2's. They were one of the first hifi speakers I experienced way back in they day. Good times.
Actually he said he used to sell both speakers, which I don't see makes him an expert on them! "If you want to say that the RB25 is a downgrade from the 601, then I totally agree." Personally I think they sound "comparable" to the RB5-II's I used to own! There is no brightness or harshness in the treble (I did have to experiment with toe in)! Like I said in earlier posts the DM601's can sound quite bright with the wrong electronics! "personally I think it's the cheap crossover" & could probably be made much better sounding.
Lol ohhhhh you guys Crack me up. So very defensive. For kicks I owned KLF30's, KG3.5, KG 5.5's, Heresy II, Chorus, Chorus II, Forte II, Cornwalls plus some various others. I sold them for 14yrs so I am no expert. I'm sure you two know more. I use a Conrad Johnson Premier Ten pre on many of these with various tube and solid state amps. From Audio Research to Dynaco to DYI to Krell. So name dropping will not impress me.If you like them better than they are better. Just saying in my many years experience almost no one considered Klipsch a better speaker than B&W. Klipsch were the blue collar rock the house down speaker. I have been to England and toured the B&W factory, research and engineering facility. B&W makes everything in house. They do what most can only dream of. It's an amazing place. If one is unable to see the quality differences there is no reason to continue this conversation.
Enjoy your speakers.
Edits: 09/01/14
I can respect the fact that you've been to "jolly old England" & seen the factory, but all I was trying to say in the original post is that "I" consider the RB25 to be superior to the DM601's! Not all B&W speakers! Each manufacturer has had a significant part in the development of audio speakers!? The DM601's are basically the bottom line!?
The thing is, LT, it's well known and no secret that a lot of people do not like Klipsch. If you love B&Ws, then that's fine too, but they too are a polarizing speaker among many audiophiles who, like me, find them painfully bright in the upper midrange/treble unless carefully paired with the right electronics and otherwise a bit overly polite. At least in the 600 and CDM ranges, and the early 800N series.
I was not name dropping. I was telling you what I have paired my speakers with and asking you to provide the information you have now provided.
As far as being defensive, I am now listening to Dynaudios and Renaissance Audio Group speakers, with a pair of Heresy IIs on loan to someone else, so I don't take any of this personally. I just think your original post was misleading.
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"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."
For the record I do not "love" B&W's. I really like some of them. I also like a few Klipsch. One of the best surround systems I ever experienced was all Klipsch. I sold a customer Klipschorns for fronts, Heresy II (pair) for the center, LaScala for rear. Big 15in sub, McIntosh separates for electronics. It was amazing! The dynamics were as good as anything. A really big but accurate presentation. Would love to recreate that with different electronics.
"Klipsch speakers jump out at people and punch them in the face." IMO their "normal/lower line" speakers do that! Not all people like horns! I've never found their reference series speakers to be that way! OTOH B&W DM601's can be very bright with their aluminum tweeter & have to be paired with the right equipment to sound their best! "Take a look inside them and the B&W's and compare." I can tell you with most certainty that the B&W are going to have cheap capacitors & resisters! I will give B&W credit for the Kevlar woofer, prob'ly a first in the industry. I've seen the parts on the RB25's & the capacitors are quality grade, & the finish is real wood veneer!
But I would not call moving to Klipsch upgrade. YMMV.
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"One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane."
Many companies use plastic/resin baskets. Mordaunt Short, Epos,etc. Non metallic baskets cut EMF from magnet structure
Yes, but this is some of the cheapest plastic there is! If they used some good plastic like military grade, it would not have broke!
Edits: 08/28/14
I have had so many quality problems with Klipsch over the years from the speakers I have owned. Let alone all the ones I've had to repair over the years. Their quality is very lacking.
looks like they didn't radius the outside inner edge corner when tooling the injection molding. Sharp corners are stress points
You know the answer........and as a "reference" it has a $400 MSRP
ET
$400 MSRP means they cost Klipsch about $80 to make. There is typically a 5:1 ratio between cost vs. selling price on commercial loudspeakers. If you get into the 'boutique' brands, I'm sure the ratio is much higher.
Yes agreed. I don't know what the OP was expecting. He also called it a "reference speaker". It's modern innovation! Plastic fantastic!
ET
Edits: 08/28/14
This IS Klipsch's "reference speaker" for the time it was manufactured, & they still make them pretty much the same...Better drivers, better crossovers, better finish than their standard grade! The ONLY thing that I'm complaining about is the fact that their using cheap plastic for the woofer frame!
Well, you can call any loudspeaker 'Reference', but a pair of loudspeakers that cost $80 to make certainly isn't what I would call a reference level product. That woofer probably cost them $10 at the most, and probably less. At this level, you can get much greater bang for you buck with DIY.
Actually, although the idea of using plastic seems "cheap"...
An injection moulded plastic frame made from the right polymers can be extremely rigid. Even the best driver frame (cast, etc.) can warp if bolted down to a warped baffle with enough force.
I don't think it necessarily means a driver will perform poorly.
Cheers,
Presto
"An injection moulded plastic frame made from the right polymers can be extremely rigid." Agreed! But I think this is a case of poor materials & even poorer design! The frame going from the magnet to the cone is flat with no reinforced "ridges?" going down the center or sides! And the magnet weighs at least 3 1/2 pounds!
Why did you think that Klipsch Reference speakers would be an "upgrade" over the B & W DM601's? I've owned both and I'd say that moving from one to the other would be a sideways move at best. They each have their own distinct sonic personalities, but one is not significantly *better* than the other IMO. The Klipsch are easier to drive, but that's about it.
Did those Klipsch RB25 speakers get shipped in their original boxes? I would never buy a pair of speakers from Canada unless they came with original boxes and packing materials. Much too much rough handling on a trip like that.
"Why did you think that Klipsch Reference speakers would be an "upgrade" over the B & W DM601's?" Mainly I wanted them because the 601's started to get compressed at higher volumes! The RB25's use better driver materials & crossover parts plus they are more sensitive & therefore faster! My idea of an upgrade is obviously not the same as others, but I wanted something better sounding (to my ears) that would not break the bank! IMO the better the speakers, the better the equipment needs to be & I like to keep it simple!
The RB-5 speakers were slightly closer to being a "reference" quality speaker than the RB25, IMO. The RB5's sold for over twice the amount, were made in the USA, used better parts, etc...
Edits: 08/29/14
I wanted to get RB5-II's, but couldn't find a pair in nice enough shape to justify spending what they wanted for them!
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