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Here is an easy question...should I place my rear ported 12" sub forward or backward to the listening area? I have it backwards now but my friend feels it would sound better facing forwards. My listening room is 18' square with a 9' ceiling with hardwood floors and an area rug. The sub is on the rear wall. I am happy with the sub now..it is a 12" definite tech powerfield sub.
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No reason not to just mess around with it until you're happy, but IMO keeping drivers and vents from firing directly at listeners is a good idea, providing a lowpass filter on any HF distortion components/self noise.
Bass is supposed to sound big. 6.5" is not a woofer size.
...and prefer to go with a "don't ask don't tell" approach.
har har har.
Cheers,
Presto
Ok. I'll try that. By the way, your post was easy the best reading of the day.
Sorry for disturbing such a distinguished Gentleman as yourself. Your name keeps coming up everywhere in relation to computer audio.
What I've read you say about computer sound cards is fascinating. Does it still hold true that RME cards are better than many top dollar cdps?
What cards should we use to get the best D/A conversion?
Thank you Sir.
Best regards
Rickard
"Sorry for disturbing such a distinguished Gentleman as yourself."Thank you but I believe the word you are looking for is "disturbed"...
Or disenfranchised? Maybe discombobulated... Yes, that will do!Sound cards?-
Sound cards go "inside the computer box". Many believe that housing the sound circuitry inside the computer is a big compromise due to EMI/RFI. RME and Lynx made some of the best PCI cards that are heads and shoulders above most if not all of the competition. $100 "sound blaster" and similar aftermarket cards generally could not touch cards of this caliber.
Some sound cards have "SPDIF" out for connection to an external DAC, but I suppose this would be still considered an "in the box soundcard"."Audio Interfaces"-
Audio interfaces connect to the computer via a data cable, such as USB or Firewire (main two). These are external to the PC/Mac and most consider them to be superior to internal cards. Most have analog outputs but some are digital solutions (SPDIF, AES, etc.) and some have both (analog and digital outputs). There are "audiophile" grade digital boxes and DACs that are USB type, but there are also a lot of good quality interfaces in the pro market that use Firewire. Some companies are switching from Firewire to USB because USB technology has improved quite a bit.
Your question: Do soundcards beat CDP'S?
In my case, yes, the soundcards I use seem to trounce my best CDP, which is worth about 2 grand. And these are not super expensive sound-cards either... $250 with mods? I think the CDP has a slightly better analog output stage but the soundcard/PC combo does better in detail retrieval and immediacy. I have not used a CDP for audio in almost 10 years, when I started "ripping" my relatively small 500 CD collection. Call me picky - I like good music AND good recordings...
Many guys have found that their PC / Mac rigs can match or even beat very good equipment. One user here (Fmak) says computer audio is very hard to get right but he is comparing to top quality dCS gear and not entry-level and mid-range CDPs.
I like PC audio for the convenience.
Do read the Computer Audio forum here and feel free to ask questions. The guys are generally quite helpful. We also have some industry participants that chime in from time to time.
Cheers,
Presto
Edits: 03/31/14
Not biased? Do you really believe that?
Do you remember what type of site this is? What is wrong with pictures? What is wrong with sharing our success stories?
Either you're being sarcastic or I need to explain the joke.
Orientation... Don't ask don't tell. Military. aka
What side of the fence you're on.
What team you play for.
As far as subs go, I prefer one in the corner but want to try 2 on midpoints on opposing walls now because the white paper linked to below makes sense and I'd like to try it.
I cross over from 50 to 60hz max with 24db slopes so I never have localization issues.
As far as orientation goes, I tend to stick to women but lately they're really p1ssing me off...
Cheers,
PResto
I was not being sarcastic but thank you for explaining what you meant and the advice..
Here is a picture of my sub and one of my stereo. The speakers are ADS L710's and the receiver is a HK ADS 7000. I know it is not that great but it blends together well and sounds very smooth. I have my computer hooked up to the stereo, so I can listen to any song I want but and listen to internet radio most of the day..
Given the furniture layout, the need to conceal cabling, and the need for sufficient walking space, how many subwoofer placement options do you actually have in that room? I'm guessing that, at most, you can find two or three good subwoofer positions.Clear out those two or three good positions and start lugging that subwoofer around, a.s.a.p. Sliding the subwoofer around on an old towel or something will facilitate the moving of that beast. You'll find out which position and/or orientation is best, without a doubt.
Edits: 03/30/14 03/30/14 03/30/14 03/30/14
I built the house myself a few years ago and ran wires underneath the floor in the living room and HT room. That is why the sub is on the back wall. I actually have many options, but am happy with the sound where it is at. I sometimes wonder what it would sound like with the sub in the middle of the room.
Here is a picture of my sub and one of my stereo. The speakers are ADS L710's and the receiver is a HK ADS 7000. I know it is not that great but it blends together well and sounds very smooth. I have my computer hooked up to the stereo, so I can listen to any song I want but and listen to internet radio most of the day..
I faced the sub forwards and moved it out from the wall a couple feet...I think it sounds better now. I failed to mention that I placed a vibration pad underneath the sub a while ago. The reason I turned the sub around to start with was that I broke the grill guides off and could not attach the grill. I did not want the driver broken so I just turned the whole thing around. I talked with Definitive Tech and they are giving me more. They have been very helpful through the years. Thanks for the advise...
I agree with Mr. Elison's advice. Mine is behind the listening position. Bass frequencies "float" through the entire room without any trace of location.
Place it where it sounds best to YOU.
Driver orientation sometimes matters. The bass in our hifi systems is usually produced by drivers pounding in linear fashion (slightly different from the way that vibrating or resonating musical instruments produce bass).Thinking of the above, you can see why one might get a certain sonic effect if a sizable, large-excursion driver is aimed toward a nearby wall boundary (vs. toward open space). More apparent boundary reinforcement being one of the results...
Yes, we all know that bass frequencies are "omnidirectional". Too bad that the turbulent air movement created by pumping drivers and/or ports trying to produce this omnidirectional bass is not always so omni. Listen carefully the next time you experiment with subwoofer placement, see what I mean.I almost always end up with one or two of my front-firing, unported subwoofers placed nearby (but a few inches forward of) the main speakers - with drivers pointing toward the listening position. Occasionally, I have good luck with the subwoofer placed behind the listening position, but once again, with drivers facing the listening seat.
I always try to keep both subwoofer and mains about the same distance away from the listening seat, which means placing the subwoofer accordingly in an arc around the listening position.
Edits: 03/28/14 03/28/14 03/28/14 03/28/14 03/28/14 03/28/14 03/28/14 03/30/14 03/30/14 03/30/14
floor, and I felt the sound was muffled. I now use stereo HSU Research HRSW10 subs also firing at the floor, but the bass is clearer. My unscientific guess is that the larger 15" speaker unit firing at a flexible wooden floor causes distortion of the sound waves. The HSU only uses 10" woofers.
I have saved the Velodyne for my son, and I am thinking of placing it on its side with the woofer aiming straight into the room. It sure would look ugly, but the bass notes may become more distinct.
Down-firing subwoofers are great if you have a concrete floor.Vibration cancelling subwoofers are the way to go if you have wooden floors, but I've read that these bipolar or tripolar designs can make finding optimum room placement slightly more difficult than usual. Less bass distortion is another benefit of vibration cancelling subwoofers.
Edits: 03/29/14 03/29/14 03/29/14
HSU Research subs, but I have been to lazy to install them. I intend to spike the stepping stones through the carpet and into the wooden floor.
I have a pair of SVS downfiring cylinders with 12" drivers, which seem to be less difficult to place than my old Velodyne 18" sub. Maybe it's due to using dual subs, I can't be sure.The key to me has always been to very judicious in their output level. It's easy to go overboard in the short term.
See ya. Dave
Edits: 03/29/14
I, too, have the SVS. Two would be awesome in my big room
Taking a page from Scaena's stacked subwoofers, I think it might be beneficial to raise it up off the floor. Just haven't found the right low coffee table. Oh wait, I have one that might do the trick, but need help to raise the SVS on it
I took the bottom plate off and bought a mechanics creeper from Harbor Freight, so it rests horizontally and I can move/rotate it easily
...to move air toward you - try reversing the polarity to see which setting works best.
You can always experiment. I also place my sub against the wall behind my listening chair, but it is facing out toward the the back of my listening chair. I have never experimented with it facing toward the wall, but if you are concerned, it would probably be better to experiment than to ask others what they think. Then you will know for sure what works best in your particular listening room. I am so pleased with the sound of my system that I have no desire to even test my sub in a different position.
Best regards,
John Elison
I agree, try experimenting. I'll be curious about the results. If the crossover is really low and the crossover roll off rapid, bass is omnidirectional and I suspect there will be minor differences at most so long as the relationship of the main speakers and sub remain about the same.
Experiment. In my 2.1 analog system the only opening (internal driver) faces forward. In the HT system the sub has a driver and a passive and they sit in a corner but at an angle so both cones reflect off walls at the same time/angle/distance, increasing output. In another system, used mostly for my son's video games the sub (again driver and opposite passive) face the driver forward with the passive facing the wall behind. They all work differently.
"It's all fun and games until someone doesn't pick up on the sarcasm"
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