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The dynamics were outstanding. From soft whispers of sound to rapid, near painful crescendos. Pin point imaging, soft metallic shimmering from cymbals. Distortion? None. Noise or hum? None.
Okay, so I attended a live concert. Nice to calibrate the ears every once in a while.
We'll have to agree to disagree about global warming until the next global cooling scare comes along
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Other than at small non amplified venues, usually Jazz, most concerts I've heard sound pretty crappy. I think a live event is more about the experience than the quality of sound. Hearing a very good audio system usually leaves me more bedazzled than anything else.
Not in my experience. And complete silence? I think not! :-)) (Or maybe Yankees don't cough?)Regards,
Andy
Edits: 07/20/12
I did attend a concert. It was in a small high school auditorium (adults played though). Yes, when many instruments play at once you have a wall of sound, but the solos and the drums could be placed, of course.
There was only one mic and two speakers, they were for a musician that would describe the upcoming numbers.
Oh, the audience was exceptionally quiet and respectful (mostly family members and some old folk).
We'll have to agree to disagree about global warming until the next global cooling scare comes along
he is in the perfect listening position and many times the microphones are right over his head. he NEEDS pinpoint imaging and likely hears just that. the microphones capture it nicely.
of course, the farther back you sit, the more diffuse the sound and very few people get to hear highly directional sound at a concert. i feel that even though it is rather an artifact of recording, it is a nice benefit to be able to hear it on playback.
...regards...tr
In most cases, we musicians are trying to blend our individual sounds into something greater than the sum of our parts. At the same time, silly people who value "pinpoint imaging" are doing their best to render our efforts moot with regards to their own intended perceptions. I pity those silly ones, for they've not only missed the point, they're happily sprinting further away from it every chance they get.
No, the conductor of an orchestra is in a position to "get a job done", but not necessarily in the best position to "be moved by the music". Same is true for every musician in the orchestra. Still, we work hard to adjust our hearing in situations like that, so that indeed we can "perceive" that whole that is greater than its individual bits (us, in fact). In a tough crowd like this, it's easy to become discouraged.
Unless visuals and stage placement are integral to a composition/performance, the entire audience would be doing themselves a favor by closing their eyes (and silencing all internal dialog in their heads). When it comes to "pure music", both sight and conscious thought are two of the most destructive distractions possible.
That said, there are all sorts of "musicians" who depend a great deal on "visual impact" -- for all sorts of reasons; hardly any of which have anything to do with music itself. Often, "it's about the show", and that's fine, as long as it's acknowledged that it's not about the music. Not really.
First of all, the audience member who can really manage "...silencing all internal dialog..." for an extended period (more than a minute) while maintaining vivid awareness is a very, very rare animal. That doesn't really address your point bit since you put all in bold I thought I'd offer the comment.
Secondly, I'm not persuaded that the capacity to hear real pinpoint imaging (as opposed to the mixing board creation of spot mic'd multi-mono) does serious violence to the music. IME selling high end audio equipment professional musicians were often among the least discerning when it came to reproduction equipment. It seemed that they only heard the music and were fairly oblivious to either subtractive or additive distortions. I suppose this might be argued to be higher or deeper listening but I think that is an uphill line of reasoning to advance.
Perhaps my personal response is partially colored by my listening to more small ensemble live music and often from relatively close positions as opposed to on stage with an orchestra or twenty rows out in a large hall with a full audience.
When it comes to 'pure music' both sight and conscious thought etc....Absolute nonsense
Edits: 07/21/12
I've spent my life with music, and with all that time and experience, I've learned something -- the more one truly understands about the experience of music, the harder it is to explain with words. I will be the first to admit that my words here are clumsy, at best.
Still, I urge you and others to reread my post, and to think again about what I tried to say. Don't let your knee start jerking too easily in "audiophile defense mode".
I appreciate what the "audiophile community" has done for electronic music reproduction (not in every way, but in many ways, certainly) -- hence my coming here to learn about certain things I can use to enhance my own recorded music listening experience. At the very same time, I'm saddened by what I see so much of -- the intrusion of so-called "critical listening" where frankly, it only gets in the way of experiencing music more deeply. With my extensive experience in introducing music to people from around the world, over many years, I do feel confident in my opinions -- even if I have trouble expressing them clearly. For that failing, I sincerely apologize.
I don't have time to go on right now, and I can't promise to come back and "finish" (I may try, but I'm learning to be more careful with promises in this regard, as I do have other things to do).
Take it as you will, but I assure you, just because you either intentionally resist, or simply can't understand what I'm trying to get at (again, my fault as well) doesn't make it nonsense.
Critical listening is important when auditioning/tweaking/setting up gear, but it can easily get in the way of enjoying and experiencing music. Its also very hard for people to turn off. After spending many years learning how to listen critically, its taken me years to learn how to turn it off. Its a serious problem with this hobby.
Jack
Don't feel bad, most posts here read like the folks are in a hurry to go out for a smoke.
" Critical listening ", around here are just bad words. The only time I do such things is when I'm evaluating a component, cable etc. The details I hear when listening Intensely really means little to me, I simply know I'm hearing something special when my toe starts tapping or when I get up and start doing the highly embarrassing funky white guy chicken.
After reading willkayakforfoods post I started to wonder how my young daughters life will evolve. She's an avid audiophile, even setup a turntable a friend gave her. We won't call her a musician yet but she's been taking both Guitar and Cello lessons for a few years. Probable one of the toughest things I've had to do as a parent was listen to her scrape away at the Cello, smile and tell her how much she's improved. It's getting better.
You remind me of Teresa DSD on SA-CD.net who says she only listens to music in a dark room all lights off. It is well known that musicians generally are poor judges of reproduced sound compared to hi-fi enthusiasts listening at home.
Edits: 07/22/12 07/22/12 07/22/12 07/22/12
that anyone that has pinpoint imaging occur in their listening environment would look to undo that phenomenon. we won't be seeing diffusion screens to place in front of the speakers to accomplish such.
i also doubt that all musicians and/or conductors agree with your stance.
...regards...tr
The role of a conductor is to balance the ensemble. Many musicians ignore the conductors command at a performance where that precise moment can not be recreated, but the role is to make the ensemble a balanced presentation. Imaging can reveal that balance, as long as the recording engineers do not attempt to create their own balance.
However, classical music is not the only game in town. Many popular recording musicians use imaging as part of their presentation: Dire Straits, for example in their Love over Gold LP, and perhaps most famously, Pink Floyd.
Stu
That has been my experience. I consider imaging a artifact of a stereo system. I've never heard it in 100s of live concerts of all types of music.
-Wendell
During a live performance of La Boheme last June I sat in the center of row H of the Barre Opera House. There was pinpoint imaging of all of the singers and solo instrumentalists throughout this superb performance.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
I have never heard "pin point imaging" of any large group in a concert hall. It's really not important when you can see the musicians.
I think that the concern for "pin point imaging" in home stereo has much to do with our inability to see the performers.
(nt)
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