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The modle 5a I own is so damned engaging that I have had to - in the interest of saving my day job - install an automatic cut-off switch for weekday nights.Thusly, the system will not sound after 11PM; the aformetnioned lockout can only be over-ridden by the simultaneous presence and subsequent set of particularly scurilous behaviors performed by at least one Catholic Priest, an Orthodox Jewish Rabi and a randomly selected female prostitute (said prostitute must also be over the age of 65). This of course gives "Labor Day" a new meaning around here...
Have just passed my 87th year,and have decided to upgrade my Vandersteen 2C's. Have been happy with the 2C for over 20 years.Have been upgrading my electonics bit by bit...and think that avenue of perfection(to my mind & ear)has been reached! ODYSSEY mono block amplifiers(160rms each) Krell KAV 300CD and the Technics SL 310 turtable that I will NOT part with!!!!!
The question is ...1:Do I go for the Vandersteen 2CE's,and will I really get that much of an improvment over the 2C's....2:Do not know if my wife will leave me if I expand to the the Vandersteen 3's.I love her dearly(for well over 50 years)the question thus being---how great an improvment to my collection of several thousand LPs,and the same amount of 78s(all jazz) AND is it worth the GAMBLE?
The modle 5a I own is so damned engaging that I have had to - in the interest of saving my day job - install an automatic cut-off switch for weekday nights.Thusly, the system will not sound after 11PM; the aformetnioned lockout can only be over-ridden by the simultaneous presence and subsequent set of particularly scurilous behaviors performed by at least one Catholic Priest, an Orthodox Jewish Rabi and a randomly selected female prostitute (said prostitute must also be over the age of 65). This of course gives "Labor Day" a new meaning around here...
That's all I can think of.
Too smooth and boring. Sound like speakers.
...I've owned 2Ci's for nearly 20 years now and use them with my TV.The good:
- They have great bass for the price which gives them a warm, musical presentation.
- The tweeter level can be adjusted.
- They are time and phase coherent.
- They sound very open.
- Excellent value.The not-so-good:
- They are amp sensitive (most speakers are) and need a lot of power to really sing.
- I prefer spade connectors to bananas.
- They do not sound particularly 'fast' or dynamic.
- They lack resolution of inner detail.It's all about your priorities and trade-offs.
the 2Ce's also use spades
"Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to" Mark Twain
...but my wife has always complained about the 'big speakers' on either side of the TV.
I owned the 2CE Signatures for a few months. While I found them to be an exceptional tower for their asking price, they are far from perfect and without fault.Unlike others, I found the high end to be a tad brittle and a bit less composed than I am used to.
The bass, while having good texture and reasonable 'heft', certainly was not the last word in speed or dynamic handeling.
The sound-staging was more two dimensional than three dimensional. For me, this is not very significant but for others, it can be a deal breaker.
It does take a bit of current to get them to sing, although I do not see this as a vice. It's just part of the beast.
The 2CE Signature is not the most versatile speaker on the planet. There were some genres of music it just flat out could not do well. (modern rock, electronica, r&b).
The 2CE Signature is not voiced like your traditional hi-fi transducer. In fact, you could almost call it anti-hi fi. At the end of the day however, the 2CE Signature makes great music..giving you very good, almost full-range performance for less than the cost of a decent pair of monitors! Whether you love them or hate them - Vandersteen has made his mark in audio history..
I read all of the reviews a couple years ago about the 3a sigs, went to a dealer and listened. They were boring, bland and not impressive. Connected to so so electronics. About 6 months ago, I heard the Quatros...WOW, they were engaging, and I loved the way they hung that image out there. So I went to a different dealer last week and listened to the 3a's in a better set up. They were stunning. My wife said it was like listening to a musical event. Mac electronics. I bought them, picking them up Friday. The fact that the speaker seems (to me) to change dramatically depending on electronics, cables and set up tells me that they must be accurate without ripping your ears off like so many other brands. I like that. I'll let you know later how they work out.
I had 3As in my main system for years and they never failed to tell me what was upstream. They're definitely picky on amps and respond greatly to speaker cabling. With the right combination, the bass kicks and the clarity, inner detail and everything improves. No, they're not fastest, most dynamic speaker, but they're easy to listen to and they're musical as can be. Kinda look like a scratching post to cats though.My son's got them now and I can hear Red Hot Chili Peppers pumping down the hall.
-Rod
You really hit the nail on the head. I have listened to vandersteens at many different dealers over the years because I have a pair of 1c's and they would give me a reference point to how other speakers sound as all rooms sound different. I have heard the 3a's depending on the dealer showroom and equipment sound anywhere from mediocre to downright amazing.
Like, euh, what model?
I've had my 2ce Sig IIs for about 6 weeks, so they're more or less broken in but I still don't have them properly bi-wired (Cardas NR on mid/tweeter and generic construction on woofer). . .My only significant complaint is a slightly veiled quality to voices and some instruments (I'm wondering if this will clear when I get proper wiring). That's about it. Oh, and the looks aren't so great (I would have bought 3As years ago but for their plain looks and massive dimensions).
These are seriously good speakers, and when you factor in price, they're an insane deal compared to everything else that I'm familiar with. Some people say that Vandies are "laid-back". Near as I can tell, they mean that the treble is subdued. IMO, what's really going on is that the treble is in balance with other parts of the spectrum, ie, not emphasized. I certainly have no complaints about the treble region. I'm getting enough bass, too - Useful output down to the mid 20s and more or less full output starting about the mid 30s. The soundstage is deep and wide with fantastic imaging. Coming from Thiel 1.6s, I thought I'd notice a loss of resolution - If anything, I'm hearing *more* detail (though probably mostly in the bass and mid-bass).
Above all, though, they are very musical; a very engaging presentation. I'm going to keep these for a long time.
Compared these to Kef Q5's a couple of years ago in a dealer showroom. The Vandersteens were "polite" on top and I felt that I was missing some of the music. It came into focus when the Q5's were switched in. Of course my hearing may be part of that equation but the Kef just seemed to sparkle more to my ears.
I think Art Dudley's review was pretty much spot-on.Also, these 2ce sig IIs disappear into the room as well as any speaker I've heard at any price (a list that includes the Wilson Watt/Puppys and several other > 10K/pair). Even when the signal is all in one channel, the music seems to originate from outside or behind the speaker. Amazing!
actually one of the areas where my original 2Ce sigs excel. Can't imagine the II's aren't at least as good. Have you checked your VTA etc?
"Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to" Mark Twain
No comprende.Thru my Thiels, voices - especially female - sounded more "open" and "immediate" (although there was also a downside to the Thiels with female voices under certain conditions). With the Vandies, it sounds more like the singer is using a microphone rather than in the room, unamplified. But this is the *only* flaw I can find, and I'm hoping it will be ameliorated with improved speaker cables.
Vertical tracking angle of your cartridge. Iwas just listening last night to an old Helen Merrill LP (Mono-circa 1964) and Boy, was she right there in the room.
"Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to" Mark Twain
Thanks for the tip. I'm not much into tweaking my vinyl rig. I had expert help to set it up "correctly" and haven't changed any settings in a couple of years, but I'll consider your suggestion.Anyhow, I listen to my CDP (Ayre CX-7e) and tuner *much* more often(the CDP on balance, is the equal of my vinyl rig). I haven't noticed that this "veiled" quality changes depending on source, but it did change when I replaced the Thiels with the Vandies. Again, I'm witholding full judgement until I get the Vandies properly bi-wired.
the only thing you don't want to do is raise it to where the high frequencies become silibant.thing of VTA as a sort of tone control. the higher you go, more HF, less bass. the lower, more bass, less HF.
I haven't heard the Quattro or 5A or the very latest versions of the 2 and 3 so maybe everything has changed but I found the 2CE and 3A (and earlier versions) to be overly warm, not especially resolving and a bit dynamically compressed. That said, I still thought the 2CE represented a viable option at its price point. If nothing else the Vandersteens are very listenable speakers. Their sins are mostly sins of omission. Used they are an excellent value, especially the 2CE.
The 5 is a very different matter. I thought it represented a major leap forward sonically. I look forward to hearing 5A and Quattro.
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1. They are accurate, not romantic speakers (Bob Neill's distinction)
2. They radiate very narrowly (compared to say the LS3/5A mini)
3. They are ugly
1. They are accurate, not romantic speakers (Bob Neill's distinction)
And this is supposed to describe a vandersteen?
I think it's backward.
I can argue that your first point is a good point because it means they give you what's on the record.I can argue that your second point is a good point because it reduces the level of early reflections in relation to the direct sound, and that reduces the impact of the room on the sound.
As for your 3rd point, beauty is always in the eye of the beholder. I don't find them ugly but I also don't find them attractive or beautiful. I'd say plain rather than ugly.
I won't disagree. But it seems (as usual) that some think thay are too warm; while others think they are too accurate. (Not too long ago, there was even a debate about whether Odyssey equipment was romantic or accurate. I wonder how Klaus feels?).In general, the Vandersteen brand seems to draw a lot less fire than any other I know of and considerable praise.
They are hard to find in Scandinavia.
> I wonder how Klaus feels?>...he doesn't feel (or even listen).
nt
What, is he a truck driver or something?
- This signature is two channel only -
They are hardworking family loving people who love music too.The country would come grinding down without them.
Nope - that's Richard
"Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to" Mark Twain
with references to being a truck driver while developing the early Vandersteens. (Hey, it could be true, he had a family to raise.) In fact, I believe he studied under Richard Heyser at CalTech.
driving race cars
"Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to" Mark Twain
They remind me of the original Advents in the sense that they don't win any contests in the showroom - they just continue to make music, day after day
"Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to" Mark Twain
NT
They need a bit of power (they aren't the most efficient), and dynamics are a bit stifled ino. But with sufficient power (tubed preferably) they are pretty damn good.
...is thus for the "fun" of it.
I am casting my net wide and far to find out what the down side is of this brand, because I can't find one, considering the model and price and comparing to others. Oh, looks. I suppose.
but not in a "it's up to the music way". It's like they make exciting music boring. They don't seem to add anything, but the sure seem to subtract things. Apparently my ears are immune to whatever time/phase alignment is supposed to do.Another thing? The "boxless" claim is annoying hype. They're a minimum baffle, high diffraction (that's bad) kinda design, but hardly boxless. I'd rather have Thiels, despite their problems of addition. At least they make boring music sound exciting rather than exciting music sound boring.
nt
On the other hand, they have huge soundstaging, precise imaging and lots of resolution in most of the range. They're not boring, at least. :-)
Agree with John. When I auditioned a pair several years ago, they left me unmoved and umimpressed, and they were in an audio friendly dealer's room, set up correctly with McCormack amplification. My Acoustats that I owned at that time just totally outclassed them, as did the other speakers at the dealer (Quads and Mirage M3s).
the latest 2CE mk II's which got introduced at CES, nor have you listened to the last incarnation of the 2CE signatures with the matched drivers. While they may look unchanged, the driver matching has led to a phenomenal increase in detail and imaging, nearly matching (not quite as good of course) as the Quattro and the V's.
If you have not heard the latest models, then you should be careful about drawing certain conclusion. The change slipped in unannounced and the great leap in performance caught me by surprise, too.
My conclusion was based, as mentioned, on an audition several years ago. I doubt that my impression would radically change today. I mean no ill will towards Vandy owners - I'm sure many would not care for some of my favorite speakers. To me, a great speaker is one that pulls you into the music, presents no harmful distractions, and has enough dynamic range to approximate the ebb and flow of real music. The Vandys I heard just didn't do those things for me.
I wasn't that excited by the 5As either.
like a magnet
I have two cats and no problems
"Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to" Mark Twain
my friend has been doing it for over 2 years, including substantial investment and effort in various tweaks and tubes. Same with 1C's which seem more forgiving.
an arc classic 60 ferinstance.
...regards...tr
Wish I had the funds for a couple of AES sixpacs
"Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to" Mark Twain
check out the price of a classic 60 or 30, it might be better than you think.
...regards...tr
I had a neighbor with the 2Cs driven by 250 watt SS amps. He switched to the Sixpacs very reluctantly after reading all of the opinions about how much power the 2Cs needed etc. I didn't really like them until he hooked up the Sixpacs. The improvement was unbeleivable. Up until then I thought the 2Cs were overhyped or just not my taste. They can sound incredibly different with the right amp. The Sixpacs are one of the right ones.
Thanks for the input - I had read somewhere a while back that Richard himself had recommended the sixpacs as the best for his smaller speakers (at least) but - you'd never get him to admit it out loud.
"Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to" Mark Twain
Please explain this quote from Stereophile:"Second, in upgrading the 2Ce to Signature status a while back, Vandersteen dispensed with the usual oversized speaker connectors, for their susceptibility to skin effects and eddy currents"
How do the connectors produce "eddy currents" and how does Vandersteen know this affects the sound?
....flame throwers ready?????
And I THOUGHT I had backbone, wow!
these things are just UGLY.Not much in the way of "pride of ownership", unless you step up to the very top of the line.
The small spade connections on the back of the speaker.
Well, everytime I have heard the 2CE's, they sound very coherent and musically correct but they lack ultimate resolution. It is as if the "noise floor" of the speaker is holding it back.I haven't heard the new offerings from Richard so I can't comment on those.
Overall, a very good speaker and an outstanding bargain for the money but the 2CE's just doesn't quite capture that last 10% of musical detail that all audiophiles are constantly trying to harness.
JMHO of course,
~kenster
I don't like that he doesn't make a bookshelf speaker. I wish I could find a set of speakers that sound like the 1c's but were smaller.
hung on the wall. Depending on your budget, add one or two of his subwoofers.Somewhere I read a short review by someone doing this and they were extremely pleased with the sound.
I use monitors almost entirely.
I used to as well and now I really regret it. :)
I just KNOW that any Vandersteen owner with sense would let me take a hacksaw and cut those pesky wood posts off. They annoy me so much that I carry a hacksaw with me anytime I know I'm going to be listening to Vandersteens. So far no one has ever given me a chance to hack off the posts, but one of these days I'll "fix" a pair and send the pesky old posts back to Richard. Who builds speakers with posts near the mid-range driver and tweeter? No one with sense.
I feel better now.
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The poles are set off at 140 degrees and wont matter in any normal listening and measuring test.
The important thing to remember is this allows a classic Form Follows function design to use many lofty drivers, multi enclosures
and be a full range design instead of the typical 2 way Six sided Boxy box for the same money. I also bet most of the guys posting have not
experienced how well this design has progressed.
I know which one I would rather listen to......
Cheers Johnnyr
There is no such thing as a sonically invisible pole
or grille cloth
Richard BassNut Greene
Subjective Audiophile 2007
The dowels that support the grillecloths on various Vandersteen models are an integral part of the design. They are carefully placed and do not degrade performance in any way. You and any of your readers can easily prove this for yourselves with a simple experiment: Darken the room to eliminate visual suggestion and place two broom handles in front of each speaker, just inside of the dowels that support the grillecloth. These broom handles will be forward of the dowels inside the speaker and will include a narrower angle, much closer to the radiation pattern of the drivers. They will still be completely inaudible. Try it.
Bose says Bose speakers are great too!
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Richard BassNut Greene
Subjective Audiophile 2007
It's a good suggestion on how anyone interested in the proposed effect of the poles can conduct their own test and hear and judge for themselves their effect.Performing the test would be more scientific than just proposing a possible effect.
room lenses :-) placed in front of the speakers. My biggest gripe is the asthetics, the second is the vertical dispersion, no way to listen to them standing up or laying drunk on the floor. I lived with vadies for a long time, heck i still have the 3A sigs with the 2wqs, they are nice if you are in the sweetspot, but unremarkable everywhere else. The Soundlabs make the Vandie's sweetspot seem microscopic.What makes them good is that they are an incredible value. You would have to be a serious woodworker to DIY something better for a lot less, and you would have to be a helluva designer to top Richard's abilities.
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I own 2Ce sigs for a year now. for $1500 its a great deal. I am getting a solid 35hz in my room. The highs have a gentle roll off from 15k. The cabinet moves too much even with lead shot in the sound anchor. I have added lead filled bags on top. I like the look of everything from the 3A down but the Quattro and the 5a are simply ugly. I have not heard the quattro and the only 5 I have heard was an early one but what I can remember it was impressive. I do not like the fact that Richard came out with an improved 2Ce sig with no upgrades for mine.
So it goes.........
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