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209.137.226.64
A few days ago I said I'd wait "a week or so" and then decide. (about the fact that manufacturers who give this forum USEFUL information are ridiculed-- or worse, accused of things that they didn't do).I recall that Mr. Allen Wright had been ridiculed-- I think probably on TUBEDIY-- I really liked him and backed him up. HOW MANY OF YOU DID WHILE HE WAS STILL ALIVE?
I said I would wait a week or so. I have kept true to this.
Quite a few posts are now gone, some others that are left are even worse!
Even though I never once mentioned my company's name OR named its products, I was accused of "making claims". I'd really like to know how one can "make claims" while scrupously avoiding mentioning any product.
I find that highly interesting to say the least! Tell me, someone-- just how is this done?
I DID talk about the 2A3 tube-- when a guy asked-- something I have useful experience with. In that discussion I mentioned something about not running high plate currents on this tube-- not being interested in that since I can normally get a lot more out of a watt of audio power than is considered "normal" in the amp-building world. Perhaps someone thought that was a claim-- no, it's not-- it is proven fact.
In another post, when a guy mentioned an amplifier that I had built many years ago, and said he liked it, it was implied that even though it didn't have the "numbers"-- or something to that effect, the man preferred it anyhow. "Oh but it DOES have numbers" I stated. "It's been to University" I said.
I supposed some think that to be a "claim". Again. I DID NOT mention my company or the name of it or any of my products, I simply was honest--there was the implication that a given piece of equipment that is exhibiting high performance must have "bad" numbers. Such a statement should not go unanswered because Lab Analysis-- in the right hands-- WILL provide clues as to an amp's performance.
SO-- to set the record straight on both "claims":
(1) More power from less watts: Here are in-room DB figures while listening to my JBL Paragon.
Listening room is 13 ft. wide by 27 feet long, with a cathedral ceiling. Average height is slightly under 8 ft., the room has 7 windows, a door, a doorway, and plenty of furnishings and a couch and chairs, curtains, and the usual in-room objects, etc. The JBL Paragon is mounted 14" higher off the deck, across the room's narrow dimension.
4 tenths watt continuous average power:
@ ONE Meter: 106 db.
@ 15 feet: 100 db.
-----------------------12 ONE HUNDREDTH WATT (.012 watt) continuous average power:
@ ONE Meter: 95 db.
@ 15 feet: 85 db.These meter readings are "C"-weighted-- that is, 30HZ to 10KHZ, not the usual "A"-weighted 500HZ to 10KHZ.
JBL rates the Paragon system at 82 db/watt at 15 feet. This coincides nicely with my experience when driving this system with other amplifiers-- and is considered fairly accurate.
This Paragon system has the original crossover networks (4 of them)-- untouched-- but has had the 0375 Alnico Midrange drivers replaced with later ferrite-magnet units, which I prefer to listen to. System wiring is Ensemble 13ga. copper/silver overcoated conductors.
The 15" woofers and the Ring-Tweeters are original. No magnets have been "recharged".
(2) THE OTHER "claim"-- "Been at University"-- amps tested at MSU:
On December 11, 2009, my latest amplifiers were tested at Montana State University Electrical Engineering Labs. I was mainly interested in TRANSFER FUNCTION-- perhaps some of you remember older TUBEDIY posts in which I referred to "transfer factor"-- a term I used to describe actual musical performance of wires and parts in an operating electrical system.
For obvious reasons, MSU deans, professors, audio-visual experts, PBS production personnel, staff and students shall remain unnamed.
---Dennis---
A
Edits: 06/12/12Follow Ups:
Fortunately, as a free talking DIY'er, I can enjoy sharing information fully, the original intent of bulletin boards (newsgroups) in intranets and LAN (old definition = Local Area Network line, not today's Land line term).
When you broadcast on the Internet, you cannot always be allowed to argue between competitors if you just became a competitor. So going from DIY'er to manufacturer, where now a company name gets used, it can be much less fun. Also, being set up as an "industry authority figure" that people will demand from you in the claiming department, can really stunt full communication.
It is because of that that I partially object to having to wear an "M" badge when starting up something new when we were "just friends" a moment ago. This stuff is not big oil, insurance, arms deals, or any kind of big deal. It is just about fun entertainment for all of us. Having a strong opinion on the way you like audio done is no global crisis. Let's get over it, in my opinion.
Its an interesting concept. He gets a lot more power and IM is actually lower than normal class A. Is your amp anything like that?
Hi Ralph,I'm not Dennis, but I know and think I understand much of his build, so let me respond.
Dennis' amps are NOT like that. He is into long term reliability and consistency of performance, so, instead of running a tube at (or over) its maximum plate ratings, Dennis would engineer tubes to run at about 62% (Golden Ratio) of their manufacturer's suggested dissipation.
This has several advantages which he has discussed up here, and it sounds less stressed to boot.
Jeff Medwin
Edits: 06/15/12
I don't get the "A3" nomenclature Jack came up with.
High Voltage & High Current I can see.
Has to do with the voltages and current, plus I think he's done something with the output transformer too. Whatever, it seems to work and does make more power.
Yes, both voltages and current are right at the limits of the tubes.
From what I can tell, the OPT is conventional, just uprated to handle the extra voltage and current.
A single ended 300b running at 45 watts dissipation will put out more power than one running 25 watts, just not for very long ;-).
You'd have to talk to him about it. From what I recall there is more to it than that. Seems to me he had to do something more with the transformers than just more power handling.
Without driving the grid positive like in class A2, you are kind of left with a maxed out class A. I don't see any different things like a cathode winding or any other additional windings. The special-ness is likely in the winding technique.
Don't get me wrong, I love Jack and he has wound me countless transformers over the years. I love the smell of his newly made transformers, they smell like... victory.
Yes, I think that is why he calls it 'A3'. I don't recall now if it employs grid current like our designs.
As much as I try I can't hear music when I read posts on the net. I can't hear 'measurements' either. There are some things in audio that should not work but do. :-)
. . .the Kool Aid. These silly arguments have been going on for far too long and get in the way of us trying to learn, build, and occasionally educate when we have something worth saying. Why do people think they need to comment on every subject when they happen to be in the Asylum? (because they're nuts???) Maybe it is time to split every Asylum into two, one for those who drink the Dennis/Jeff Kool Aid, and one for those who find it a bitter drink to swallow. Those with an open mind can peruse both. I for one find most, but nor everything they say to be somewhere between useless and BS as far as enjoying the hobby, but if I do not agree or find their blathering meaningless, I just move on. I learned a while ago in is near m*sterb*tion to argue with either of them.
"I learned a while ago in is near m*sterb*tion to argue ....."
I should learn that.
It's just that, at times, Dennis says things and makes claims that are so outlandish I just can't let it be.
I will try to just let it go.
It's just that I can't help but think about the poor guy who is just getting started in this hobby (the build it yourself part of this hobby) reading all that misinformation.
It just doesn't sit well with me.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
I feel the same way. If someone - anyone - presents a string of gibberish as science, it makes me feel very uncomfortable and I want to speak out against it. I should know better by now, I suppose. There are enough kool-aid fans to keep the BS artists in business snd it's not really my job to try to save them from themselves.
Edits: 06/14/12
Here is the thing with me Ray........ First off, I dont know anything about the technical side of "why" this stuff sounds the way it does. So when you guys argue about the numbers, readings, ohms law, etc..... it goes way over my head. So these disputes are inadvertingly cause of some amusement for a guy like me. The other perspective for me regarding Montana Dennis , is that after attending trade shows, and close to having owned or borrowed close to 50 SET's, this guy's stuff is on to something that kicks all ass in my book. So within that head of his are some basic truths about what sounds really good. So I'm not one of those who "drinks the kool-aid", I just read the post with a smile and know that whatever the hell he's talking about..... there is some magic within his observations.
And you should KNOW lakerfan, that when I questioned Ray several years ago, he truthfully told us up here that he had never even HEARD a modern SE amplifier.
He from England, lives in Indonesia, and is not able to hear all we have access to. But Ray is an OK guy, even if he tries to bait me regularly, I like him.
I am getting better about not falling for his outrageous baiting posts, and it makes him look like a biased idiot at times in my opinion. 'Sorta fun.
Jeff Medwin, .... I am Dennis' audio friend for about 30 years. PS, I have held and been INSIDE your amps in Montana after a RMAF show.
Look...... keep it going ! This back and forth with Dennis or Jeff? is a ok with me. The only music lovers that matters to me in the end are my two ears. Who's Jeff ?
Are you kidding? Jeff is drlowmu, a long-standing member of AA
According to this archived ad on A'gon
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/clsk.pl?spkrfull&1261771731
The Ranger Paragon was rated 95 dB at 1W, 1m. The midrange and tweeter drivers by themselves were much higher. Even allowing for some drop-off with distance, your recollection of 82 dB rated efficiency seems too low. It also seems low for a horn-loaded speaker, in general.
It would be cleaner methodology to measure the SPL with one of the "other amplifiers" using the same power levels, power metering and SPL setup and equipment as with your amps. I hope you will consider doing this. As it is, you seem to be relying on past experience and recollections of what is "considered fairly accurate" to make you key point, instead of side-by-side measurements.
I am taking no position about your amps here, as I have no experience with them.
I am looking right at the JBL booklet that came with this speaker. That 82 db reading is at 15 FEET as I stated-- not at one meter.
I took my readings at BOTH 15 feet, and at one meter. You can compare them if you like by re-reading my post.
---Dennis---
...that you MEASURED the "other amp" at 15 feet with 1 watt and got 82 dB, with the identical measuring setup to what you used on your 2A3 amps at 0.012 and 0.4 watts. Perhaps you DID do this with the "other amp" but if so it is not apparent from your original post.
About the JBL specs: well, if you have the booklet then it is what it is. The audiogon guy's 95 dB at 1w/1m did show up elsewhere on the Web when I googled "JBL Paragon efficiency" so that does not seem to be an error either. Perhaps it was a different vintage of Paragon, or perhaps the SPL does drop off 13 dB from 1m to 4.5m, though I would not expect that from a speaker of this design, nor would I expect such a low efficiency, but of course I have no firsthand knowledge of the Paragon, so I'll drop the discussion here.
There isn't any confusion here.
All readings-- the ones taken at one meter, and the ones taken at 15 feet were all made using the same amps--
My standard model D.C.-coupled 2A3 amp.
I did not give readings from any other amps, so go ahead and compare what the Paragon does in my living room at different distances from it.
This speaker is much less efficient than JBL's other designs using the same components because it is a single stereo speaker.
Across its front is a giant spreader-lens-- JBL called it an integrator panel. This device causes the drivers to heavily load the amps-- because it spreads acoustic energy out-- and covers an entire room-- a huge area. There is no ideal listener area or "hot spot" like other speakers have.
Instead, the acoustic energy is "thinned-out" over an entire room.
Driving this arrangement at a decent listening level requires amplifiers that can deliver the energies that it requires ON TIME.
If an amp has even the slightest coherency problems or cannot deliver acoustical energy on-time and at high momentary pulse amplitudes, the speaker simply sounds boring, ordinary and musically deprived..
When Paragons were introduced to the public, people re-sold them. They were cheap and easy to find used in the 70's, 80's and 90's.
I saw my first one in a store in Hong Kong. The man refused to demo it for me because he said people misunderstood it. He just kept it for HIMSELF to listen to-- not for customers.
He said no amps (this was Hong Kong! the guy had ALL decent amps from the entire world in there) could drive it-- period. That is why he discouraged people from buying it.
When I got home, I made certain that I bought one and had it delivered to where it is today.
As you can see, I do not let my thinking on a subject be skewed-- I go straight to the problem and DO SOMETHING about it.
Of course, what the man had said was true-- I had to design the amp that could run it.
Sorry this got long, and I've been retired from making claims. There are plenty of my amps out there. People know what they can do.
---Dennis---
I guess 8 is plenty.
Do not forget, Dennis has his Paragons rewired with 13 AWG Ensemble wire, as he posted earlier.
Jeff Medwin
I can well believe that Dennis's Paragon sounded better with improved internal wiring, or even that there may have been a measurable change in the frequency response (e.g. more extension at one extreme or the other.) I find a large change in SPL sensitivity with better/heavier wire harder to fathom. And if it did increase the efficiency over stock, that just reinforces my point that the test system is probably way more than 82 dB efficient by any definition (and probably with any amp.)
(You WERE serious about the wire, yes?)
(You WERE serious about the wire, yes?)
I call Poe's Law
"JBL rates the Paragon system at 82 db/watt at 15 feet."
Testing "4 tenths watt continuous average power: @ 15 feet: 100 db."So using the 3dB per doubling power assumption: If 82dB with 1 Watt, then to hit 100dB @ 15 feet would require 64 Watts with those speakers.
Are you claiming that your 0.4 Watt is equal to a normal amp's 64 watts?
Are you are measuring average SPL for power but not average SPL output?
What is the average to average or peak to peak? A 1ms tone burst of 100 watts will "average" 0.1 watts over one second and peak over 100db on speakers.
Did you test the same setup with a "normal" amp?Was someone screaming in the background?
Edits: 06/13/12
Chris, Dennis has gone through this before.
When he did Douglas referred to the watts from Dennis' amps as "Magic Watts".
Dennis has explained that his amplifiers don't produce a signal that causes the speaker to (I think he used the term) "fibulate" or "fibulation".
According to Dennis other amplifier produce a signal that gets very little usable signal to the speaker, but the signal from his amplifiers is all usable by the speakers.
I, for one, don't believe a word of it.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
This is the easiest thing in the world to prove to yourself-- you don't need me!
In fact, I'm losing interest in having one-liners pulled out of context and re-arranged so that their meanings are totally lost-- or changed, or re-arranged some more to project an opposite conclusion from that originally written by myself.
Members who wish to figure any of this out should view my old COMPLETE POSTS and get the real thing, not perversions of it.
ENOUGH!!.
Oh yes-- fibrillation is what happens when your heart wastes energy, but doesn't pump enough blood. It is ALSO what happens to speaker diaphragms when inferior amps try to drive speakers. Power levels in watts aren't the item here-- proper amp behavior
while being driven by music is the item here.
Now, back to the point-- prove it to yourself: Simply-----:
(1) Get ANY speaker. Get ANY amp. Get a good Decibel (SPL) meter.
(2) Now, we're ready. Drive the speaker at a given SPL level-- for a set amount of time. This must be music, NOT steady-state signals, and measure the HEAT in that speaker's voice coil.
(3) Now, get another, different kind of amp, and repeat the above procedure at THE SAME SPL level-- for THE SAME PERIOD OF TIME-- under THE SAME conditions.
(4) OK now! The heat buildups won't be the same!
(5) This isn't conclusive enough, so get ANOTHER different amp yet. Repeat the above procedures with it.
(6) Guess what! You now have 3 different heat levels at THE SAME SPL!
WHAT GIVES? The AMPS are NOT EQUAL.
Got it now? Good.
---Dennis---
"In fact, I'm losing interest in having one-liners pulled out of context and re-arranged so that their meanings are totally lost-- or changed, or re-arranged some more to project an opposite conclusion from that originally written by myself."
The procedure you go on to describe in your post, describes exactly what I said you said.
Maybe I didn't say it well but that's what I meant.
I took nothing out of context, at least not on purpose.
1. So are you talking about speaker damping?
2. Why does it have to be music signal?
If this fibrillation is taking place, why wouldn't it take place with a single sine wave?
3. Can you see the cause of this fibrillation on a scope?
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
"For obvious reasons, MSU deans, professors, audio-visual experts, PBS production personnel, staff and students shall remain unnamed."
Good questions-- but all I'm doing is repeating results that are accurate, but are not believed.
Nevertheless, one last go:
(1) Your doubling assumption-- 64 watts would NORMALLY be required. However, nearly all ordinary tube amplifiers under 150 watts or so WILL NOT drive this speaker well.
If the speaker is pushed to high volumes on those amps, low-end will suffer as will clarity, sharp pulse accuracy, speed, definition, and especially image depth and multiple layering of music. PRAT suffers also-- actually most amps simply can't drive it very loud without plenty of distortion-- which is VERY audible because the curved front integrator panel blows this distortion all over the room..
(2) Remember-- I am not allowed to make claims. Figure it out for yourself.
(3) I am measuring SPL IN THE ROOM with a mike that is part of a calibrated SPL measuring system-- according to normal industry standards.
(4) The meter resets every .2 seconds-- two tenths. The average reading for that period is held. Peak and averaged readings are a part of the machine's delivered result. Readings were also taken, resetting at .5 seconds-- that's one-half second. Those readings are similar, but show about 3 to 4% lower on most music.
(5) The .4 (four tenths) watt reading taken at 106 db was actually far louder than one could stand to listen to music for any length of time. It isn't bad in this case, because it remains with full musical bandwidth and it's clean-- it doesn't change quality at this level. But that level is just too much for anything but super-loud and clean just to enjoy a Rock Band with dominating Guitar for one tune-- as an example.
I do play orchestras that are very good at high levels. This approaches what they can do in real life, and isn't a problem.
One should understand that this speaker uses an entire room, and brings that room up to high levels all over it-- not just near some axis-- as do most speakers. That is why it is hard to drive. It reflects back into the amp-- its room enveloping requirements.
What I am trying to say is that this is a speaker that I love to play very loudly because it doesn't have "hot" spots-- it is very uniform across and down thru an entire room. It gets ALL of the room.
That is why you can run it loud and not get listener fatigue unless it is run VERY loud. It has another quality-- at very low volumes, all of the music remains fully intact, and so do all the musical dynamics and layers.
Is it superior to any other speaker? I believe so! How many amplifiers will do it any justice? Maybe two or three in the whole world-- maybe 4 or 5.
Don't ask me! I can't make claims.
---Dennis---
"I can't make claims."
Yes you can. You just need to back them up.
You can claim that 10 volts across 10 ohms is 1 amp of current.
Your back up would be Ohm's Law.
Follow this simple example and you'll be fine.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
Voltage equals current times resistance. E=IR.I am fine. How much of your power is making heat, and exactly how much is producing useful musical output in a speaker voice coil under constantly changing, driven conditions?
You CLAIM a watt is a watt. If NOT being modulated musically, operating into a pure, unchanging resistance, it is.
If your watt is modulating a speaker, or even if it's frequency-modulating a light bulb-- the load is changing with the characteristics of the generator.
In this case, you cannot accurately calculate a watt-- (yes, we do the best we can, and we have instruments that can approximate this) you have to OBSERVE WHAT IT ACTUALLY DOES.
I do this with stunning accuracy and you drag out bits and pieces of old posts-- where I DARED (shudder!) to mention a NAME or a PRODUCT-- in the simple context of giving useful background information to a discussion-- the honest and right thing to do. But HORRORS!-- you resort to cheap character assassination.
OK-- so you're frustrated when something doesn't behave as you dictate that it should, and you don't like anyone who can see what's wrong with that picture. Well, TOO BAD!
In formal debate, pulling partial statements out of context is considered intellectually dishonest because it is.
Trying to pontificate scientific modeling based on static, unchanging conditions in an operating system where everything is ALWAYS CHANGING isn't exactly brilliant either!
Over a watt! A watt of WHAT?
You don't say because you can't-- or won't-- describe the actual behavior of physical substances while they are being musically modulated.
Your static, dead model is exactly why you refuse to understand what I refer to in my posts. Those posts weren't written to make something or somebody look good or bad, they're out there so that intelligent people can see HOW SOMETHING WORKS-- and WHY.
But I don't dare mention how to get me on the phone-- maybe tell someone who cares how to use the info on my website to find me. Oh NO! That's mentioning my company.... so now the poor guy can't even call me.
OK-- fine. So you and a few other even stupider guys dominate this place. With CRAP!
The world around you is a constantly changing set of operating parameters. If you'll just observe WHAT IS HAPPENING-- and WHAT ACTUALLY DOES HAPPEN instead of what you insist upon dictating to others, using only static modeling and personality clashes that make no sense whatsoever-- then maybe you can make sense of WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENS in the real world.
---Dennis---
Edits: 06/14/12
-
The JBL Paragon is that big wooden thing that they made. A friend of mine has the big one and the little one.
Now in your test, you say different amps will heat up the drivers differently. Obviously in a Paragon this would be a bit difficult to actually measure- those are big cabinets and by the time you got the drivers out wouldn't they be cooled off? So- did you have the speakers on the bench for this test?
Also, couldn't you just run a sine wave and heat up the speaker that way? If you then measured the sine wave voltage across the speaker load, couldn't you equalize the levels between the various amps that way? Seems to me that might be easier.
Finally, I am wondering if what you are talking about might be covered at this link. Just a yes or no will be fine for that.
I imagine you build amps for the love of it. But I need you to know that your love for your craft also brings joy. For me..... that trumps all this other BS. An infinite delight in making others happy ? That trumps all this other petty BS.Ok, a high crime was committed. Don't ever break forum rules again. Next time watch it Cowpoke !And in the meantime keep bringing joy. There is a place for you being prepared in Audio Heaven.
"But I need you to know that your love for your craft also brings joy. For me..... that trumps all this other BS. An infinite delight in making others happy ? That trumps all this other petty BS."
Amen.
nt
"Even though I never once mentioned my company's name OR named its products,""My website is seriousstereo.com"
http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/set/messages/7/70838.html"This new 3X power supply is so satisfying that I'm now producing it commercially-- so I will soon update the website to show it.
I haven't been in any hurry to advertise it yet because I wanted it perfect FIRST-- so I had to see a lot of hours on several of them.
There have been zero problems on all 3 of them-- I have one, and two other guys around the USA each have one, so now I feel happy to tell you about these.."
http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/set/messages/7/70854.html
You're breaking this forum rule;
"A trade member may not post announcements, advertisements, sales information or the like about a product he makes or sells."
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
Edits: 06/12/12
"Even though I never once mentioned my company's name OR named its products,"
"My website is seriousstereo.com"
http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/set/messages/7/70838.html
Nuff said. BS is BS.
Paul Joppa directs posters to bottlehead.com and the bottlehead forum for more information on their products...what is the difference???
You and Tre' should read Paul's post below many times!
You just don't get it do you ?Dennis posted "Even though I never once mentioned my company's name OR named its products,"
Tre then quoted a Dennis post which showed that claim to be patently false.
"My website is seriousstereo.com"
http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/set/messages/7/70838.htmlWhere I come from there is a name for people who make false statements. This is why I and others have a problem with him making serial unsubstantiated claims. The Bored recently instructed Dennis to substantiate future claims. I truly hope this instruction is complied with
Edits: 06/13/12 06/13/12
.
5. A member of the trade who posts for the purpose of supplying specifically requested information about his/her product or to correct mis-information about his/her product appearing in another post may – but is not required to – include his/her company identifying information in the body of the post.
That is what Paul does.
That is not what Dennis did. Nobody ask about computer power supplies.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
postings by Dennis (forget his moniker) as I rarely read in DIY.
The post Tre' references appear to have been deleted by a moderator, who should handle such issues.
that's OK as I'm an expert @ dealing with it.
Did he mention his company when asked about his impressions on the 2A3 ? That's where he was blasted for doing so. Or did he mention it in another forum. I missed that ?
"Did he mention his company when asked about his impressions on the 2A3"
Yes. While answering your post http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/set/messages/7/70806.html
Then, when gortnipper answers that post stating that the email doesn't work and not asking anything about computer power supplies, Dennis starts an announcement about his new product. Sounding very much like an advertisement, even giving sales information with regards to the coming changes to his website to show it.
http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/set/messages/7/70854.html
So, your question, Dennis' answer with his company name, gortnippers question (about email only), Dennis' advertisement about his new product. 4 posts all in a row.
Starts here, http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/set/messages/7/70806.html
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
... in this very small corner of the audio world, most "manufacturers" are mighty small scale. It's really a pretty grey area, where the boundary is between a hobbyist and a factory. If you sell your old amp so you can build another one, are you a factory? Of course not. Can you be an enthusiastic hobbyist even if you sell several amps? Of course you can. Do you have to be a good scientist with degrees and peer-reviewed papers in order to post here? Guys, it's an Asylum!
Dennis is IMHO more enthusiastic than greedy. You can tell that he's more interested in the hobby than in just making money hand over fist - we're not talking Krell or Mark Levinson here.
Now I don't exactly agree with Dennis' conclusions about WHY things happen, but I love that he will tell you what he hears and describe the experiment in enough detail that you can do your own interpretation. I have no doubt at all that he is reporting accurately. That's generous, and it's useful; few of us have done as much careful listening and it's expensive to do. Sure, you have to parse what he says, knowing his personal biases and beliefs. You have to do the same with mine, or anyone else here. Did I mention this is an Asylum?
My two cents.
nt
Observe, don't think
~!
The Mind has No Firewall~ U.S. Army War College.
more of a peanut butter fan.
Then you can draw a whole lot
of inferences from that.
The Asylum is a potpourri of flavors.
All flavors are not for everyone.
Choose your flavor and leave the rest.
Do not look down your nose at those
who may have a different palatte.
Do not ridule those who disagree with you.
And DON'T try to eliminate opposing voices.
Just agree to disagree.
Be diplomatic and polite.
DanL
Uh Dan, my stab @ humor implied everything you said.
I suspect MUCH gets lost without INFLECTION.
The Mind has No Firewall~ U.S. Army War College.
It's a shame some won't follow this advise.
That was well put, thanks DanL!
Did I mention the name on the amp-- or did I just talk about the subject-- and how the item under discussion-- 2A3 tubes-- was affected by it??
Power supply was under development-- and I think could be discussed as a project that might interest some who are into computer audio-- it is not a product unless I release it. When I do that, if it's mentioned on here, I'll have to leave its name out of the discusion.
When I mention my website, it's so that people can find me or find info. about something. Nearly all manufacturers who contribute to this forum do that occasionally.
There is a fine line between imparting the info that someone wants-- and the background that he needs to have a full and decent discussion-- and the accusation that a manufacturer could be tooting his own horn.
The problem that we all have is how do we give people the info. they are asking for, and still not be afraid of mentioning what we are doing or what we have learned in doing so.
The more the rules muzzle people, the LESS you will learn from me-- and many others like me.
While all this was going on, I got many phone calls from forum members, begging me not to quit because they consider the forum boring and with very little useful information when manufacturers are muzzled, or are only into giving out little tidbits of almost useless information-- being afraid of breaking some rule or another.
You can't have it both ways.
The manufacturers are the people who really know what they're doing.
If you want to shut up the most useful, prolific and interesting of them because the rules muzzle them, or you are deathly afraid that one might be selling something (ALL people are ALWAYS selling something-- it's the Human Race-- you DO NOT have to buy anything!!)then this forum--and others like it-- will end up like the T.V. media-- lots of splash and lots of motion-- but no meaning and no actual progress.
What that eventually decomposes into is WAR-- as the over-controlled weak get wiped out by people who are free to talk, invent, and live actively and productively.
It's a Law Of Nature! You can violate it only for so long-- and then the IGNORANT GO DOWN.
But HEY! They followed the rules rigorously! WHAT went wrong?
---Dennis---
There are sponsor forums like K&K Audio and MagneQuest. They are free to sell anything they want.
BTW No one ask you about your computer power supply, you just volunteered that info.
I am seeing that it's not just audio that you look at differently, it's everything.
You're an odd bird Dennis.
With your latest claim you get 21db more SPL because your amp makes "magic watts"?
I will not ask you to explain that one, I've had enough of your BS.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
"Magic Watts"?What is a "Magic Watt"?
---Dennis---
Edits: 06/12/12
You tell me. It's your claim, not mine.
You said you get "More power from less watts" [using the same speakers].
That sounds like magic to me.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
HOW MANY OF YOU DID WHILE HE WAS STILL ALIVE?"
Right here, you can query under DIY tube forum.
More importantly, the transfer function you mention and the SUSTAINED power output of the JBL paragon under those watt numbers I find most interesting.
The Mind has No Firewall~ U.S. Army War College.
.
nt
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