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In Reply to: RE: Stand by your guns! posted by Chris O on April 26, 2012 at 08:09:19
You know nothing about the mentioned products and didn't answer the question. You respond with misinformation and stereotypes. You win ignorant post of the day. Congrats!
BTW-
Linn= Scotland
Dynaudio= Denmark
Follow Ups:
The poster said "So the appeal of buying American is no different to me than buying Chinese."
Are Scotland and Denmark in china? Are Scotland and Denmark third world countries?
You win ignorant post of the day. Congrats!
I agree with the notion that there are indeed sweatshops in China. However, like most stereotypes you can't generalize the few to be representative of ALL.
Line Magnetic and Melody have been OEM for numerous American and Italian and Japanese brands who put Made in Japan, Made in Italy, Made in America stickers on their amps - so the laws governing labeling is questionable (when you cut government bodies that check on that stuff - that's what happens.
I lived in Mainland China and I saw terrible working conditions by any North America standard. But I also saw some good ones.
The Asian market is loaded with money - they're the ones buying all the $100,000 British Made Audio Note preamps. The dealer in Hong Kong probably sells to rich Chinese who vacation in Hong Kong wanting the best. All the money is in Asia.
So the Chinese makers who build for their own market have to be good in order to compete - they have to be much better in fact because the Rich Chinese ALSO view Chinese made stuff as being inferior. Reputations once earned are very difficult to overcome (see American piles of junk cars through all of the 80's and 90s and even now they're looked at sideways despite the Japanese quality falling off a cliff)
To be fair though you really should look to these better makers - Steven Rochlin of enjoythtmusic.com did a big factory tour through the Chinese tube amp makers availabe at their site.
Another from 6moons http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/roadtourchina/melody.html
Pay is lower but cost of living is lower - the key is whether the wage is reasonable to the cost of living of the city in which you live. I'm a teacher in B.C. Canada - my wage in terms of buying power is 50% of what it was in the mid 1980s. Like I said - we're going in the wrong direction.
Line Magnetic is here (none of these are deplorable working conditions).
RGA-
The Line Magnetic amps use mostly imported parts and iron. They wind their own transformers using wire and cores from Europe. Same goes for the caps, depending on the model, I've seen custom made Jensen's, Mallory's, Sprague's etc. They're hand made by a small group of guys/gals in a very clean, very modern and very pleasant facility. I can tell you that since dealing with them over the past two years, they have been closed numerous times for vacations, they don't work weekends or long days. No sweat shop here. So the stereotypes do not apply here as Chris O likes to paint with. I do agree that many Chinese made products are very poorly built. Not all, not by a wide margin. Funy thing is, some very popular US and Japanese made products, as you pointed out, are made by Line Magnetic and other Chinese brands.
Back in 2005, I and a friend were approached by a Chinese manufacturer at CES. He showed us pictues of their plant. In the photos you could clearly see many VERY expensive "US made" speakers being produced. One photo showed a "Made in CT." badge on the rear of a massive and over $50K speaker.
So ignore the tags and supposed country of origins and listen.
I have had much better luck (sound quality, build quality and longevity) with USA wound transformers and amps than I have had with Chinese amps.
If you like the Chinese amp, go for it. We (and even Canada) are a free country, for now.
The problem comes down to comparing what to what? Which specific Chinese amp versus which specific American amp.
I've heard several American amps and I see most people seem to compare $10k American amps with the $299 Vuum or $999 Jolida/Antique Sound Labs of the world.
My first tube amp was going to be the 202a from Jolida as a second hand piece. I went to audition it and it failed. - they repaired it - I went back two weeks later - it failed again. Apparently the first fail it had caught on fire. This was back when it was made in America. I've had an ASL headphone amp for over 10 years and never once had a problem (but interestingly this model of ASL had had some people on forums questioning the build. It's not neatly put together in a seamless way perhaps.
The Grant Fidelity Rita sounds better and is built better than the McIntosh 275 (arguably the best and only McIntosh worth buying). I can guarantee that no one will walk away from that amp thinking that it isn't well made. Sonic interpretations ok - it is KT88 and not everyone likes that but ...
your view that the G.F. Rita is better built amp than the Mc 275 is a bunch of crap, not sure how you came up with that. (or even care)
Well I reviewed the Rita - and I've used the 275. The 275 is the best amp I've heard from McIntosh. Personally I would not buy either amplifier because while I do like the sound of them I happen to like the Single Ended presentation more than Push Pull.
Edits: 04/28/12
For your info, the above recommended Monaco 845 output transformers are made in Taiwan.
I own American made SET amp with Japanese output transformers that looks like a home brew project, an American made autoformer base preamp that has the worst rigged chassis, wish their fit and finish can match products from some third world countries.
by Wan Electric Wire & Cable Mfg., Co., Ltd. Some of the best hook-up in the world is made in Taiwan.
Guys,
With all of the Aye Rand quoting, on the take Law Makers in this great nation coupled with the Fox News propaganda, we are ALREADY on the fast track to 3rd world status...the argument is basically NULL...
Go with your ears....
Stuben
:)
The thing is, and Peter Qvortrup pointed this out decades ago - Asian audiophiles have always been in love with tube amps. Some credit should go to the fact that they can hear!
So it strikes me that some of these guys would be hugely passionate about sound - and now they have money in China they are following their passion and trying to take over. Japan did that with cars - or would have if they were not number of sales limited.
I think that the better makers really do care about making quality products. Some don't - but that's true of any market.
And to be blunt - because China has this bad reputation (and maybe not for much longer) now is the time to be able to buy the stuff at a somewhat affordable price. The LM 219IA looks like a $50k amp in person.
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