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In Reply to: RE: Tube dampers etc. posted by throwback on April 08, 2016 at 20:31:30
I also have my M60s on Sound Anchor stands.
The StillPoint Ultra SS will make a startling improvement.
The effect is cumulative and I have them supporting all of my components.
Herbies Ultra Sonic RX are my preferred damper for my power tubes, driver and gain 6SN7s, tripple Guitar dampers on the CCS.
I have a MaxiPre tester that I can measure for gain and noise.
I find that perfectly matching the 6SN7 sections for gain is important.
The quietest tubes that I can find I use for the driver and CCS.
I have found that the gain section tubes sound better if they have a lower noise reading. ( more tubey sounding )
Follow Ups:
Mr. Derrick, This may be in agreement with what you are saying, but if you have a way to measure "noise" of a tube, other than simply to insert it in the circuit and listen to music (which is not a bad way to do it), it's probably best to use the quietest tubes in the gain stages. The driver stage, and the circlotron output stage of the preamplifiers, does not add any gain, so in fact you can better get away with using noisier tubes in the driver stage. Same goes for the CCS, although I say that with less certainty; the CCS constitutes a very high impedance circuit, so it would block noice from the distal side, at least.
Apropos the talk about microphonics, I am facing the fact that I should get rid of my beloved KenRads from the linestage gain section of my MP1; they have become hopelessly microphonic, where once they were tolerably microphonic. They've gotten much worse lately. O-ring tube dampers are not helping at all. ("Microphonic" is not quite synonymous with "noisy", but it's one way in which tubes can add noise.) KenRads have all had this problem to one degree or another, but I am addicted to their sonics; I just try to pick the quietest ones from my diminishing stash. I am going to try Brimars next, which I know are NOT microphonic but are not quite as magical as KenRads.
Customer feedback indicates that the Sophias, Psvane Black Treasure and the TJ Music 6SN7s have the sonic attributes of the best of the NOS tubes without the detriments. That's a pretty strong statement, but its been consistent over the last 3 years or so since they started turning up.
So you might look into a pair and see how you like them compared to your KRs.
Yes Lew,
One would suspect that logic would seem to dictate the tube which measures lowest for noise would be the best choice for V1 & V2.
But I have found that not all low noise measured tubes sound the best.
They can be very dry and dull.
My tester can measure the noise floor of a tube but you need to listen to it for microphonics.
I can tap on the tester and the value will fall, but I do not know what negative effects that may impart on the sound.
The MaxiPre has a pair of outputs that you can and I have, connected to the input of a pre to listen to what tapping on the tester sounds like through a given tube.
Some tubes just produce a "thump", while others howl like a banshee.
I believe that certain microphonic traits can be desirable in a tube.
What an MP1 needs vs my M60s may not be apples to apples.
When I had an MP3, I always used the lowest measured noise 7316s for the best performance of the pre.
Some of my best sounding 6SN7s in my M60s, are not the quietest measured tubes.
Edits: 04/10/16
I absolutely agree that the quietest tubes are not necessarily the best sounding. (In fact, it would not be incorrect to say they are USUALLY not the best sounding.) Like I did say, I have stuck with the KenRads in the MP1 only because they are my favorites in terms of sound quality, but they have never been the quietest. They were somewhat microphonic from the get-go. And yes, a little microphony can be euphonic, but we as audiophiles are not supposed to admit we like that effect. (Joking.) Anyway, one KenRad has definitely got to go; the other may still be usable.
With me, it's a trade-off. I select first for sonics and then hope the tube is quiet enough to tolerate in the circuit. All I meant to add in the first place was the idea that noisy tubes in gain stages will be more evident than when the same tubes are used in stages that do not add gain, as driver/cathode follower and probably as CCS.
In my journey thru 'N7s decades ago, my first good-sounding find was the RCA, but that was quickly replaced by the KR VT-231/6SN7; to me the KRs were a little warmer balanced (a positive) and lacked nothing anywhere else. But then I found the TSRPs and discovered an even-more-attractive tonal balance and overall excellence. I had over two dozen years ago but then I had nothing to use them in and sold some; I was down to 15 until I bought the quad pictured below. But they too can be microfonic.
I'm retrieving a pair of Atma-Sphere M-60 monoamps today and plan to use probably two TSRPs in each amp.
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Tin-eared audiofool, large-scale-Classical music lover, and damned-amateur fotografer.
William Bruce Cameron: "...not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted."
I don't use 6SN7s in the input stages of my monoblock amplifiers, but I do use them in my MP1. Last night I was going through my stash, and I may at most have only one TSRP. (Until last night, I had no idea what "TSRP" stood for.) I do have a plethora of KRs (mostly used and of several different origins), Brimar CV1988s, and Raytheon 6SN7WGT. One sample does not cut it. I may try any of the others; it's such a pain in the butt to dismantle my MP1 in order to change tubes that I prefer to make a decision however empirically and stick with it until the tubes go bad, as is the case now. I already use the Brimars in the circlotron section of the MP1.
I've got RCA 5692s, too. But they seemed a bit dull last time I had a listen, albeit that was not in the context of the MP1. A few Syls and GEs, too.
...$75 and warrant that it's not dead, e-mail me at jeffreybehr(at)cox(dot)net.
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Tin-eared audiofool, large-scale-Classical music lover, and damned-amateur fotografer.
William Bruce Cameron: "...not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted."
Anyone?
Jeff, I sent you an email re the single TSRP.
...I gave up on everything else.
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Tin-eared audiofool, large-scale-Classical music lover, and damned-amateur fotografer.
William Bruce Cameron: "...not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted."
I may have mentioned I found a NOS pair of these in my 6SN7 stash, with the gray smoked glass. They tested as new on my Hickok, whereas only one of my remaining KenRads had not previously seen duty in the MP1, which means I took them out of the MP1 at some time in the past, for some reason, even though they test well. Anyway, I decided to try the RCAs last night. I am very very pleased, especially since these may have been sitting on a shelf for the past 60 or more years. They sound lovely right from the get-go. Bass and midrange to die for. And lack of microphony makes them a bit better than the microphonic KenRads I just removed, which could get shrill on high frequencies. From memory, these sound better than red-base RCA 5692s, of which I have many. I am happy.
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