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In Reply to: RE: Just Downloaded the 5th Mov't of Dausgaard's Seattle Maher 10: clueless and expedient as Ormandy's but better recorded posted by jdaniel@jps.net on November 19, 2016 at 15:16:50
Is that how Mahler would have completed it or is that just how those who did complete it decided to leave it from the existing sketches? (Is this the Cooke version?)
I've always wondered why those who have completed the 10th symphony didn't follow the orchestration ideas of the 9th symphony more closely.
Of course, it's one thing to try to orchestrate like Mahler, another to do it successfully.
Follow Ups:
to me. That said, the soloists have a lot of weight on their shoulders.
The only stretch that comes across as hoaky is that ascending scale in the basses towards the end.
Yes, the Seattle recording is the third Cooke version.
Mahler did complete the first movement of the Tenth, and it has many "spare lines" compared with any movement of the Ninth, so I don't know that we can assume that he intended to "unspare" the Tenth if he'd lived to finish it. How can you orchestrate the sketches of the Tenth to be like the Ninth (i.e., with lots of counterpoint) without doing lots of your own composing?
"How can you orchestrate the sketches of the Tenth to be like the Ninth (i.e., with lots of counterpoint) without doing lots of your own composing?"
You can't, obviously. But to me, the 10th symphony as completed by Cooke is stylistically far from the other nine symphonies (though closest to the 9th), and clearly not composed by Mahler himself (AFAIK even the first movement was not completed by Mahler, especially wrt orchestration). And it isn't just a question of "spare lines". To me, much of Cooke's symphony just isn't quite in Mahler's style.
I think the problem comes from a philosophy of completing an uncompleted work by attempting to keep to the composer's original ideas as closely as possible and avoiding as much as possible inserting one's own rather than attempting to complete it as he might have.
That may be a reasonable approach and the best one for avoiding controversy, but for me it leaves a work that at the same time sounds incomplete and not truly by Mahler.
FYI, here's Cooke's lecture given at the first performance of his "completion" (he doesn't call it that) of Mahler 10.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqthgNuFF9Y
One point that Cooke makes is that the short score that Mahler left has some aspects that are new to his music, e.g., constantly changing time signatures in the scherzo. So one reason you might find the 10th unMahler-like is that Mahler had gone off in some new directions in this piece (as he did in the 9th, which has litte in common with the 8th).
Edits: 11/20/16
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