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In Reply to: RE: Speaking of Pentatone and Tchaikovsky. . . posted by Chris from Lafayette on September 18, 2016 at 15:29:33
Maybe my faulty recollection; but weren't these Philips Stokowski's the result of re-recording by Loudspeaker playback (as with Colin Davis's Berlioz Te Deum) - or are they from an original tape-stage....
Follow Ups:
. . . I wouldn't see the need for this, since Pentatone does have access to the original quad tapes.There WAS a rumor I'd read about - spread at the height of the SACD vs. DVD-Audio wars that the EMI quad DVD-Audio releases (Strauss Alpine Symphony with Kempe, Holst Planets with Previn, etc.) were produced via re-recording of loudspeaker playback. There was never anything to this as far as I could determine - and I had almost all of these EMI titles. I chalk this rumor up to the zealotry of some SACD partisans - wanting to make sure that their platform won in the market. (In fact, it reminds me of the Playstation vs. Xbox episode of "South Park" - LOL!)
However, there's a label now which apparently does produce their releases via re-recording of loudspeaker playback, and that's 2XHD, which re-releases some of the Naxos titles in 24/192. I don't have any of these. Despite the way in which these 2XHD albums are produced, some listeners swear that they sound better than even Naxos' own 24/96 releases. Go figure.
So. . . what's the story with Colin Davis' Berlioz Te Deum? I'd never heard that one. Care to elaborate?
Edits: 09/19/16
I'm very much looking forward to Petrenko's Shosty 4th and 7th.
Edits: 09/19/16
Found this (AMAZON)
"Colin Davis's recording of the Berlioz Te Deum followed a performance in Westminster Cathedral as part of the great 1969 Berlioz anniversary celebrations. Sadly, the recording had to move from the Cathedral because the organ was 'playing up', and took place instead in the Watford Town Hall (now Colosseum), whose organ was in finer fettle. The tapes were then taken back to the Netherlands where Phillips added reverberation to create the appropriate 'cathedral' acoustic 'halo'...".
So (apparently...) not Loudspeaker replayed...though not exactly my recollection of 'Gramophone' (maybe subscriber-searchable) and have never played my original Te Deum LP/Box set/Sequenza -or the one 6500 Stokowski....yet.
I'll leave you to trace any info on the Stokowski's (that came from the 'net -once) as don't collect (sic!) CD/SACD, etc, releases.
So, as I understand that Amazon comment, Philips merely added some reverb to the organ track in the Davis Berlioz Te Deum?
Regarding the Stokowski recordings, if you're going to make the assertions, then, sorry, it's not my job to prove them for you.
I suspect all you are bothered about is that you may be listening to Loudspeakers via your Loudspeakers...but "can't tell the difference" !!
The Amazon comment is 2015 - the Gramophone article was some 20+ years back....adding reverb is hardly worth specifically mentioning in an article.
You were wrong about the Colin Davis Berlioz Te Deum, and, yes, I suspect you're wrong about the Stokowski Philips recordings. Sure, I might not be able to "tell the difference". OTOH, you may be hearing things that aren't there. Until I see some corroborating evidence for your allegations, I'll remain skeptical.
By the way-
"As a form of segue, I was offered some inside information about these recordings. Ed Johnson, arguably the finest Stokowski expert in the world today, and I have been corresponding about the Stokowski Sound. He informed me that Stokowski was unhappy with the original master tape. He had the engineers take the master, play it inside a church and re-record it with this added reverberation!!"
. . . it seems we were probably "listening past" each other if you were basing your comments on having listened to the LP's and I was basing my comments on having listened to the SACD's. Thus, in your statement"I suspect all you are bothered about is that you may be listening to Loudspeakers via your Loudspeakers...but "can't tell the difference" !!". . . you must have assumed that I was listening to the vinyl incarnations too. And although I indeed used to have the vinyl incarnations, I got rid of them and haven't listened to them in over 35 years. Things do progress! ;-)
. . . why the CD and SACD reissues sound so much better than the LP did! As you no doubt recall from my earlier post on this thread, I mentioned "I used to have both of these [Tchaikovsky Stokowski recordings] on vinyl, and found them a bit diffusely recorded on that medium". So it's pretty clear what must have happened: when the CD's (at least in a couple of incarnations) and the SACD's were released, they went back to the original recording, rather than the re-recording inside the church. And I'm certainly far from the only listener to have made this observation:"The present performances were not served well by the long-playing record, as they were taped quadraphonically but issued only in cloudy two-channel sound. Pentatone's remastering of the Philips tapes has resulted in conventional stereo reproduction of great sweetness as well as clarity, and those with SACD players can finally hear the vivid four-channel versions for the first time. Stokowski often was ahead of everyone else in sound reproduction-and here again is exciting proof, discovered 30 years later."
-Alan G. Artner, Chicago Tribune
The Davis info is maybe around (but possibly read that much later in a Gramophone article ?); and am pretty certain re: the Stokowski.
Sometimes the Quad was much better (Q4ASD Firebird/Ozawa - the ASD sounds threadbare, having been stripped of the rear channels).
Loudspeaker re-recording allegedly also affects Ashkenazy's solo Decca material (replayed in Kingsway Hall).
But the basic question is whether the re-recorded versions were the only 'master's' left?
Are you talking about the original (Philips) issue of the Davis Te Deum? And as for the Philips Stokowski recordings, are you talking about the Pentatone re-masterings? It sure would be nice if you had a source for these allegations.
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