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My biggest worry about "modern" interpretations is fussiness in the name of freshness: abrupt tempo changes/accelerations, etc; turning the textures inside out, bizarre balances. micromanaging each note/phrase.
Thank Darwin, none of that here. For me, the make or break moment is the trombone solo. In Vanska's hands it's just right: the lead up isn't rushed, and, during the solo, orchestral support is IMHO perfectly balanced-- built from the bottom up, (bass). The massive shifting chords grind and gleam as they should, everything is weighty and resounding. Bravo here.
Considering complaints about BIS' dynamic range, the quiet opening was plenty fleshed-out. During the "stream of consciousness" half-hour that follows, there's not a dull stretch. That said, Vanska blessedly avoids mining this or that passage for "new meaning."
I'm assuming the orchestra was recorded in the same fabulous hall that Aubort/Nickrenz used for the Ravel Vox Box years ago. Yikes: decades ago. Very gratifying balance of detail and glow. Wide soundstage.
Anyone hear the other symphonies from this set? The 2nd and 5th have a lot of competition. It's hard for me to imagine Karajan being replaced in the 5th, or Barbirolli/Maazel/Szell for the 2nd, (though Szell just misses the transcendence of the final pages, as is his wont).
The other CD includes the 1st and 4th. IMHO Karajan's hard to beat in the 4th (the atmosphere!) but the 1st is pretty unbreakable: I've discovered I like the Davis/Boston, Berglund's first EMI, and Maazel's/VPO. Again, hard to ruin the 1st, unless too clinical and/or robbed of it's Tchaikovskian influence. (Of course, too much of a good thing is bad too.)
Follow Ups:
I listened to your rec Mravinsky and Leningrad again today and still like it, plus the album cover is as Russian as Blinis.
That Trombone, though, he's just not that good. I'm better and I never made a dime playing it. Oh wait, I was in a high school Combo-Orks band that played school dances and Bar Mitzvahs. 20 bucks a night I recall.
Whoa!!! That's $158 bucks today!!!
Anyone else play Sentimental, Satin Doll and 5 O'Clock Jump when you were kids?
The critical acclaim for the Mravinsky 7th is over the top, but I burst out laughing when the trombonist came in.
. . . you might understand the critical acclaim. The Mravinsky Sibelius Seventh is one of the greatest recorded performances of anything - a one of a kind performance, with a level of drama which other conductors seem almost afraid to attempt. As I said before, that doesn't mean that other interpretive approaches to this symphony (such as Vanska's!) aren't valid. But if one is on board with a high-octane, high-intensity presentation of this music, one could not find greater commitment than what's heard from Mravinsky and his orchestra. But don't take my word for it - here's an Amazon reviewer's post:. . . bought it mainly for the Sibelius 7th, based on reviewers in many venues. The performance is just...otherworldly. Mravinsky handles a number of details differently than what you'd hear in many other performances of this symphony, and it adds up to an exciting, and spiritual whole. It starts off almost immediately, with the ascending string entry taken at a much faster clip than most other recordings...and you know what? it works (as do many of the other smaller bits of detail.) I'd also mention the horns sound much earthier--but also much more soulful--than other western recordings.
I suspect, though, that any remastering attempt of a mid-60's live radio recording from Russia can only do so much. Has anyone heard it?
Russell
It's the last tracks on this set, streaming it on QOBUZ and it could use some 're-mastering'.
I have no idea what they did (if anything) as far as remastering goes, but the sound quality is very good for its time IMHO, especially considering that the performance was recorded "live" in concert.
I know Melodiya has been reissuing a lot of older performances lately, with variable results. I haven't heard the set you show in your post.
Not easy to compare dynamics and balance on Youtube but I cued up the first section of 3 performances, Vanska, Mravinsky and the King Of Shmaltz, Bernstein.Vanska is all about the crescendo building to the Trombone solo, Mravinsky has his strings forcefully digging it out at a much faster tempo which serves to emphasize the dynamics but leaving less room for the drama of the crescendo than Vanska. Bernstein apparently believes Norse music must be glacial and his idea of the all important crescendo is to go from mf to f .
In all three, the Trombone is played in the Germanic style, more legato than British or American orchestras which somewhat obscures the note changes. Mravinskys Russian also has the typical added vibrato which further muddies things to my ear with my Western training.
Bernstein and the VPO let's forget about.
For the all important opening and lead in to the Trombone solo: I really like the opening strings for pace and dynamics of the Mravinsky and kind of in awe at how he still gets a dramatic full orchestra crescendo from there. Vanska has the lightest and loveliest string tone and takes his time building the dynamic and tonal blocks that create the best crescendo by far.
Both are worthy performances and I have no favorite except the Swedish Trombonist far better presents his part as the exclamation point needed for the 5 minute sentence leading up to it.
Okay, so now I ask, what makes this work a symphony and not a tone poem?
Edits: 09/15/16
Well, as Schumann supposedly said when asked about the difference between a sonata and a fantasy, "What's in a name?"!
In the case of the Sibelius Seventh, I've read a number of booklet notes in which the writers try to discern movements within the evolving continuous development of the music. OTOH, I've read other writers who claim that the symphonic poem, "Tapiola", is itself really a symphony (in the same manner as the Seventh, I suppose). I think Sibelius wrote these works at a time when the distinctions between symphony and symphonic poem had already broken down and were not at all clear.
l
. . . your Ansermet Petrouchka! ;-)
nt
Broadly speaking, the comparison with the Minnesota cycle in these four symphonies reveals similar interpretations and levels of execution. Some reviewers hear just a touch more virtuosity in the Minnesota performances - I'm not sure I would make that claim. For me, the main advantage of the Minnesota set is that it's available in glorious surround sound. ;-)
BTW, in yet another permutation of orchestras and conductors, I also plan to acquire the Okko Kamu set, also with the Lahti SO.
I have his 3rd on a DG LP, and it may be my favorite recording of this one.
Now I'm going to have to catch up on my listening!
This is a fabulous set of performances (in surround, Chris!). Great sound--24/48--(at least in stereo; that's all I have), enlightening comments and overviews of each symphony including rehearsal footage. I find it superior to the Kamu in performance and you get video plus valuable commentary. It's available from some Amazon sellers for slightly less than $60. Not bad for three Blu-Ray discs and a nice hardcover booklet.
I'll probably be going for the Kamu/Lahti set first though, just because the "bundle" price ($35.29) on eClassical is so attractive.
Yet another one I want to hear is the Storgards/BBC set on Chandos, which also contains the little wisps which survived from the Eighth Symphony sketches.
It's hard for me to imagine Karajan being replaced in the 5th, or Barbirolli/Maazel/Szell for the 2nd, (though Szell just misses the transcendence of the final pages, as is his wont). > > >
Not on my agenda - Maazel, Barbirolli, Bernstein, Karajan.... Szell's always a maybe.
On my agenda - most of the Baltic and Scandinavian conductors, except Berglund who I've never liked much.
I lived in Norway for 6 years. I spoke the language and was very interested in the culture - I gigged all over Norway and did a lot of school tours as well. I need my Sibelius to feel "Nordic" with all that brings to the table. Just like I like my Falla to be played by Spaniards. It's in the blood, and it isn't your typical European symphonic tradition either.
I haven't heard the latest Vanska, but I like what he's done so far. Together with Segerstam, Kajanus, Jarvi, Saraste and some of the others, plus a few Russians and some conductors who sympathise with the music.
But as with Mahler, I don't like a lot of rhetoric or "added passion". I want to just hear the music. So for Mahler it's Boulez, Gielen, Rosbaud, Maderna. I don't think they recorded much Sibelius between them, though..... Don't know why Boulez wasn't big on SIbelius - no doubt he said something about it to somebody.
What is the "Nordic" feeling in music?
I have been thawing out some thoughts on the subject but I would first like to hear what he has to say about it.
Nordic for me is many things. In terms of personality it can be quite introverted and self-reliant. But there is a sentimental side to it as well.It's quite unassuming - these are not people who brag about things. The Janteloven (Jantelagen in Sweden) is all about humility and restraint - not presuming to be better than you are. So the ostentatiousness of a Bernstein is not very Nordic, for instance. That would be a bit like the Norwegian comedy series Lilyhammer
There is a basic honesty in the people - genuineness is rated highly and is a top quality on dating sites.
Life is seasonal - there is great joy in Summer and people swim, sail and walk a lot in the countryside. Winter is a different joy - snow, skiing and the beauty of a cold, crisp sunny day.
So in terms of Sibelius I like it as above - modest, measured, not showy or exaggerated, chilling at times, but also with moods of great sunny joy in the beauty of nature. Sibelius has all this. It's in the music itself, and exaggeration and "bigging it up" just kills it. I don't want to hear any added passion, I want to hear the music itself.
Edits: 09/16/16 09/16/16 09/16/16
Nicely put. I think I've noticed similar things in the USA nordics. They also seem to be very family-oriented.
I agree, but I like Berglund more than you do. Never lived in Norway, but written Danish and Norwegian are pretty darn similar. Having learned to speak danish, I have a hard time understanding spoken Norwegian. But the grammar and vocabulary are almost identical, with just a few letter differences.
Other way round for me - Norwegian is easy to understand. Danish is notoriously hard to follow, see YT....
Is this Nordic enough? Well, it was recorded in Helsinki in 1965:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjO4hItRHjs
This is not a typical Cleveland Orchestra recording..... This gives you an idea how the Cleveland Orchestra may have sounded under a top label like RCA.... Albeit in mono.
Just got this SACD a couple of weeks ago and I've enjoyed it immensely. I wouldn't characterize Vanska as "unfussy," but I think these performances strike a splendid balance between the objective and the personal (unlike Bernstein's Sibelius, as another post noted). My only complaint is Vanska's tempo in the final movement of the Sixth. To my ears his brisk clip undermines the ethereal beauty of the music, especially in the final pages of the score. (To hear how beautifully this can be done, try Barbirolli.)
No complaints with the Seventh; it's tremendous. Close to my touchstone in this work, which is Ormandy's 1960 Columbia recording (not the RCA remake). And I'll second Chris's opinion that the sound is superior to the earlier two volumes.
I have to share a personal incident about the Seventh: I attended a performance of this symphony by Sawallisch and Philadelphia during the orchestra's centennial season. Historical associations aside (the orchestra gave the US premier under Stokowski), this was a musically overwhelming experience (the passage leading up to the first appearance of the "trombone hymn" was handled magnificently). One of the pinnacles of my musical experiences, to which any recording pales in comparison.
I posted about it last month - don't know if you saw the post. I also have the hi-rez downloads of the other symphonies in the set, except for number 2, and I think that this last volume (i.e., the one you're posting about, with symphonies 3, 6 and 7) has a very slight superiority in SQ compared with the earlier volumes (for whatever reason).
Not on ClassicsOnlineHD as yet. :-(
Yes the #6 is sublime!
I'm not that familiar with the 3 and 6, so I'm not sure a slower tempo would throw me off at this point.
The whole Maazel cycle is also available. I may check out the 2nd, which impressed me on vinyl.
Yes, I own the SACD. Given Vanska's "unfussy" temperament (I am a fan), I was surprised by how highly personal his interpretation of the 2nd is. Given your fondness for Barbirolli, you might like it more than I did (Szell is, always has been, and likely always will be, my touchstone for this work, and I disagree with your assessment of the final pages). The 5th is exceptional, although I haven't compared it directly to others I own. (For example, I think Karajan's recording is good, as you do, and I dislike the Bernstein, which seems to me to be closer to a re-imagination of Sibelius' 5th by Bernstein instead of the genuine article).
the Szell more. Both keep a "tighter" grip on the first mov'ts, perhaps to the music's advantage.
I have to admit that my mind wanders a bit while listening to the Barbirolli.
With regard to "transcendence," I'm referring to a couple of measures close to the end, featuring sustained mid-range strings, right before the final trumpet fanfare: Barbirolli really gets them to sing out, or K Wilkinson is spotlighting them. It's one of those imprinting issues, I guess.
I have a soft spot for Maazel's Sibelius - he was the guest conductor, and the 5th was on the program, the very first time I attended a SF Symphony concert at the age of 17, in 1971. I own this cycle on RTR tape.
I think Maazel morphed into a different kind of conductor over time, but he was doing some great stuff in the early 60s.
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