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What I love is the looks on the faces of the guys in the orchestra!
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Yuja may "wow" people with her looks, but she never "wow'ed" me as a concert pianist.... I mean, musically, she's OK, but if I had to choose between a canvas picture of her or a CD of a performance by her, I'd unhesitatingly choose the former.
Can someone recommend a perfectly executed Chopin Sonata No.3 recording in which finesse and architecture are fully present? This would help to increase my understanding/appreciation of classical piano performance. Thanks.
I assume you're responding (with a bit of sarcasm) to my post below, in which I quote some random critic found after a 2 minute google search of Yuja Wang. If you disagree, his opinion isn't a bit more valid than yours. But after listening to her playing, I knew I could find a critique like his online pretty easily. Others make a similar point, at least obliquely, though all are impressed with her charisma and virtuosity.
No matter. If she inspires you and helps you connect with the music, she's a success. Enjoy.
Wonder how many of these babes will be remembered in 20 years time?
or even 10.
Well let's put it this way. About 5 years ago or so when I discovered Yuja Wang I started a thread on the Hoffman forums titled "The next superstar in classical music Yuja Wang." Or something to that effect. A few forum members wrote her off as a flash in the pan and predicted that she would be forgotten in 4 or 5 years.
weeeeeeeell it's been 4 or 5 years. I'm thinking I was pretty much on the money with my prediction back when she was brand new and hardly known at all.
Actually, my sense is that Yuja is more in demand these days than ever. I believe she appeared with the SF Symphony no less than four separate times last year - I can't ever recall that happening with any other artist. I think she appeared multiple separate times in LA (within the same year) too. Maybe she just likes the West Coast! ;-)
Anyway, you have to ask why symphony managements in both locations keep re-engaging her so often. I think one factor is that they know she's a lock to fill all the seats in the hall every time she appears. Of course, if one still doesn't like her playing, one can always retreat to the quote from Beethoven: "They say, vox populi, vox dei - I have never believed in this" [from Ferdinand Hiller's Reminiscences]. But in that case, there could also be some underlying self-flattery at work, viz, "I can discern beyond what the common crowd does"!
Just sayin'. ;-)
She is in more demand than ever before. her management is now in the business of picking between all the offers she has. This is world wide phenomenon not just a west coast one. It doesn't hurt that MTT and Dudamel think she's the best pianist in the world but there are a lot of other music directors around the world who share that opinion so they all want to play concertos with her.
Also, bluemooze is right - the guy needs to define his terms.
But in fairness to the random writer I excerpted here, he was just writing a brief concert review, not a learned book-length treatise on piano music of the romantic era. One can go to Charles Rosen for that.
When I wrote my first post, I had never read a single Yuja Wang review. But having heard her, I knew I could find a few comments like his amongst the predictable torrent of praise.
Hey, if there was only one right way to play Chopin, that wouldn't be saying much for Chopin, right? CASG.
One shouldn't have much trouble finding reviewes that agree with their own biases. Here are e few reviews you did not mention.
"There are recitals, there are great recitals, and then there’s Yuja Wang. In an extraordinary scene Sunday in Herbst Theatre, after hearing her play the audience appeared both exhausted and elated. My hands hurt not merely from applauding, but also from an apparent case of couvade syndrome (men’s sympathy pain at childbirth) on listening to two hours of devilishly difficult Scriabin and Prokofiev played with ease and clarity.
It was a relief to hear emphatic agreement from a fellow admirer of Martha Argerich (who gave Yuja a huge
[Armed for anything]
Armed for anything
boost at the beginning of the Chinese teenager's career) that Yuja's full tone in her right-hand melodic material is now really close to that of the Maestra herself.
Argerich and even Horowitz come to mind witnessing Yuja lighting-fast and yet effortless passage work. Her smooth, almost imperceptible change of dynamics within a measure, and the freedom of the left hand in treating melodies are stupefying
Said the fellow Argerich (and now Yuja) fan: "I normally stay away from piano concerts because the majority play everything as if every note should have the same level of intensity. I don't know why that's trained into so many pianists. Yuja is very different: her shaded dynamic readings are wonderful."
So, what did she do after the ovation following her program? She sat down and gave a couple of encores: Chopin (Waltz in C-sharp Minor) and Scarlatti (Sonata in G Major, K. 455), both played exquisitely. It was truly a concert to treasure."
"The arrival of Chinese-born pianist Yuja Wang on the musical scene is an exhilarating and unnerving development. To listen to her in action is to re-examine whatever assumptions you may have had about how well the piano can actually be played.
There are virtuosos who can get around the keyboard with comparable speed and accuracy, but they don’t achieve the kind of rhythmic ease and communicative grace that Wang does. There are pianists who can probe as deeply, or even more so, into the structural mysteries of the great piano masterpieces, but their fingers don’t relay those findings as reliably as Wang’s can."
And we have things like Gary Graffman calling her an artist that comes around once in a hundred years. And we can look to Michael Tilson Thomas, Charles Dutoit, Zubin Mehta, Gustavo Dudamel, Claudio Abbado and most recently Esa Pekka Salonen as huge fans of Yuja Wang.
But apparently none of those folks seem to know all that much about the "presence of finesse and architecture"....I guess.
Look, preferences in classical music are quite personal and there is nothing wrong with liking what you like and not liking what you don't like. But let's keep it real. She knows what she's doing. She doesn't lack any fundamental understanding of musical structure.
You can always find a wide range of opinions. That's what's great about music, and art in general. And nobody has the right to tell you yours is wrong.
Or mine. ;-)
I found music reviews even more diverse.
Anyone notice if there was a piano?
.
It's actually easier for her. Heel acts as a fulcrum.
It's actually easier for her. Heel acts as a fulcrum. > >
Have you tried playing in high heels as long as those???
I don't play piano nor do I wear high heels. But I believe her when she tells me it is easier to play in heels and I think the fact that she practices in heels would seem to support that.
Ah - so she says so herself. Didn't know that.
Kind of reminds me of pole vaulting - maybe she should have a little hole in the stage where the heel goes in.
You also have to consider that she has small feet.
You should have seen the dress she rehearsed in.
You post a great deal about Yuja Wang, Chris, but imho her musicianship does not live up to her beauty. Great technique in the sense of being able to play fast, evenly, cleanly, precisely, and powerfully. She wisely plays Rachmaninov and Prokofiev concertos that showcase those abilities. But a simple Chopin waltz reveals an unsubtle rubato and pedal technique in place of the subtle phrasing and touch that is needed, for me anyway. (Not so simple, I guess!)
For me, the acid tests are Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Schumann, some Liszt, and Debussy (maybe Messiaen). And perhaps above all, Chopin impromptus, mazurkas, ballades, nocturnes and waltzes. As you know, these include many "easy" pieces routinely assigned to young, ordinary students that aren't so easy to master. A quick look at her discography for these composers shows she has recorded the Chopin etudes and 2nd sonata, the Liszt B minor sonata, and the Beethoven Emperor Concerto. I think I get the idea. ;)
She can play anything she wants. She likes Rachmaninoff and Prokofiev. I'd say for a 27 year old she has quite a broad repertoire.
I see what you mean. ;-)
That doesn't even make sense.
Sometimes I clown around too much.
Here is an excerpt from an overall very positive review of a San Francisco Yuja Wang concert by a pianist/critic named Ken Iisaka. I didn't read this before posting, but I know what he means:
The Chopin Sonata No. 3 was similarly played, with unending showers of cascading notes executed perfectly, particularly in the flighty Scherzo. Her right hand seemed to just hover above the keyboard, yet delicate but sprightly notes bloomed in the air.
Yet, beneath all the dazzling pyrotechnics, there was an absence of finesse and architecture. The persistently restless, driven tempo left little time for the sound to dissipate through the hall, burying new phrases and motifs under the resonance. Phrases were often indistinct, and counterpoints failed to make their presence felt. Overly generous pedaling obscured details. These things matter less in concertos, where the pianist plays against a full orchestra. But careful attention to details while preserving the full spectrum of colors is what distinguishes a great recitalist.
I've been tempted to listen to her more than I already have, but that review sums up why I haven't. I don't how a black vinyl miniskirt and spiked heels can go together with introspective playing.
I don't know how anyone could think there is a connection between musical artistry and fashion choices.
. . . but in general I don't agree at all with that review. Maybe if that guy could define what he means by "finesse" or, even more so, "architecture" (this latter term is a particular bête noire of mine!), I'd consider his review less of a cop out. And I've never heard Yuja employing "overly generous pedaling". I'm not saying it couldn't happen on occasion, but I've heard most of her recordings and I've seen her in concert a few times, and that description doesn't square with what I've experienced.
Chris I have mentioned before about thses young pianists do not understand the overall structure of a piece of music. technically superb but not enough study of the composers they are playing. Very superficial. She may develop into a great artist but I still feel sheneeds more studies to get greater insight into the styles of the composers she is playing. Listen to her Chopin vs Rubenstein and you will see what the reviewer is saying. The music is in her fingers but not in her heart
Alan
This is absurd. The idea that these artists don't understand something that you the layman understands about musical structure is simply laughable.
It's one thing not to like an artist or an interpretation. But these kinds of assertions are ridiculous. Yeah these young artists study diligently under great teachers and no one ever bothers to tell them about musical structure and of course none of them ever listen to any recordings from the past. They are all just tooooo busy working on their stellar technique.
You can be sure someone like Yuja Wang has been working on the piano full time since early childhood, in addition to being prodigiously talented and receiving excellent teaching. But art is a funny thing. Or maybe even, as you put it, laughable or absurd.
No artist can impose his (or her) aesthetic on his audience. He has to find a way to make his art resonate with the emotional and/or intellectual life his audience, however humble, brings to the experience. If he can do that on a more profound and universal level, his art will more likely have a more universal and profound impact.
So an artist like Yuja Wang has many important choices to make. But if she wants to pack concert halls in her 20s and be hailed as a Young Sensation, some of those choices may be dictated by that. And I might not be quite the typical audience member she is working to reach. That's not her problem, but it's not mine, either.
I defended Lang Lang here at AA on the grounds that a large part of his audience is Chinese. And the Chinese tend to have a different cultural aesthetic than we do, even when it comes to Western classical music. They aren't inherently wrong. In the US, we tend to forget that there are other countries and cultures, some far older and more populous than ours, and every bit as sophisticated. That doesn't mean I have to be a Lang Lang fan, though.
All of which means, saying Yuja Wang isn't for me doesn't involve my asserting artistic or knowledge superiority over her. That would be silly. Rather, her approach may not be as universal or profound as some others, even if for understandable reasons.
"So an artist like Yuja Wang has many important choices to make. But if she wants to pack concert halls in her 20s and be hailed as a Young Sensation, some of those choices may be dictated by that. And I might not be quite the typical audience member she is working to reach. That's not her problem, but it's not mine, either."
Yuja makes her choices based on her personal aesthetic values. There is no calculations on her part in regards to packing concert halls or being hailed as a young sensation. That has happened but it is the audience's and critics' reaction to her as an artist. There was no master plan on her part. No calculations as to what would pack houses or wow audiences and critics. What you get with Yuja is who she is as a artist. So she's really not trying to "reach" any particular audience. She puts herself out there as an artist and the audience reacts accordingly. And it has gone pretty well for her.
"I defended Lang Lang here at AA on the grounds that a large part of his audience is Chinese. And the Chinese tend to have a different cultural aesthetic than we do, even when it comes to Western classical music. They aren't inherently wrong. In the US, we tend to forget that there are other countries and cultures, some far older and more populous than ours, and every bit as sophisticated. That doesn't mean I have to be a Lang Lang fan, though."
Yuja has been living in North America since the age of 12 and is very much American on a cultural level. She does not pander to Chinese cultural values. Lang Lang is a very different beast when it comes to connections to his home country.
"All of which means, saying Yuja Wang isn't for me doesn't involve my asserting artistic or knowledge superiority over her. That would be silly. Rather, her approach may not be as universal or profound as some others, even if for understandable reasons."
Yuja does what she does as an honest expression of herself as an individual artist. As for the "universality" of her approach is concerned I would think the sales of her CDs and the sold out concerts worldwide and the high demand for her by audiences and conductors and the high critical acclaim would suggest that she is not really lacking in universal appeal.
That doesn't mean you should like her too. But I don't think she has a problem with mass appeal. I really don't know what to say about the "profundity" of her performances vs. other pianists. Seems pretty subjective no?
Really?
You listen to Lang Lang, Yundi Li, and Yuja Wang. . . to me, that's an incredible aesthetic range right there! (And we haven't even gotten to Chinese string players yet!)
But if you've listened to the work of contemporary Chinese composers (some of which has entered Lang Lang's repertoire), even those who use all western instruments, non-western influences are nearly always there. I think it would be naïve to assume that a musician born and raised in China would see Beethoven exactly the same way as someone from Germany. Perhaps we are gradually moving to a worldwide homogenous human culture, but we are not there yet.
And Lang and Wang do have similarities. For one thing, both are known for wearing distinctive, eye-catching attire on stage. ;-)
I have yet to see Lang Lang in a short dress.:-) Actually if you want to look for male counterparts to Yuja in the realm of fashion I would suggest you look at Jean Yves Thibaudet. Who isn't Chinese ironically. Yuja has actually been ostracized by the press in China over her concert attire and has been accused of not being properly trained in the ways of Chinese culture. I'm not going to repeat what Yuja has to say to that but I will say she is quite happy to be an "Americanized" person of Chinese decent.
The one thing Lang Lang and Yuja do have in common is that their primary teacher was Gary Graffman. Who is also not Chinese.
This thread actually did make me think about Jean-Yves Thibaudet. A very elegant, classy Frenchman. Though I'm not gay myself, I'd not be surprised if he had a significant gay male fan base who found him appealing in his younger days (and for all I know now as well, though he's over 50).
But very much unlike Yuja Wang, he wasn't selling sex appeal on stage in an explicit way. There are still cultural taboos that make that impossible. However, he is openly gay, and according to Wikipedia won't accept social invitations if his longtime companion is not included. Good for him.
And I wasn't trying to make a close comparison between Yuja Wang and Lang Lang. Though both were students of Graffman at Curtis, as you say. Also, the Chinese government has apparently been an oppressive obstacle for Lang Lang as well.
Yuja isn't "selling" sex appeal on stage. She simply is very sexy. what she and JYT have in common is an interest in fashion that extends to their stage appearances. They both dress the way they dress in person and on stage as an expression of themselves as people. It's not about "selling" anything. Hers is a picture posted by Gautier Capuçon on Facebook. This was a small gathering at JYT's house. This is how they dress in real life.
Sorry, we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one. FWIW, if you do a google image search for "hot classical pianist", and look at photos of individuals, you get: (1) Yuja Wang; (2) Alexandre Tharaud; (3) Lang Lang; (4) Valentina Lisitsa; (5) Yuja Wang; (6) Helen Sung; (7) Helene Grimaud; (8) Maria Aru; (9) Yuja Wang; (10) Kris Davis.
Not very scientific, but it isn't easy to dominate google like that. She has to pose for a lot of publicity pictures in tight skimpy dresses that get posted on frequently visited public websites. I'm sure many nude models consider their nudity self expression as well, but ...
We'll we can agree to disagree on this but just know that you are wrong. :-) I'm not sure what a google search has to do with anything. She's a young hot girl who likes to dress up. There is no grand scheme or publicity campaign. And let's be clear here. I'm not speculating. I've taken her shopping.
I'm sure she's a nice young lady. And at any rate, if clothes can help her achieve classical music stardom in any way, I can't criticize her for taking advantage.
However, YOU, Scott my friend, know her personally and are biased. That's OK too, but in that case it's rather poor form for you to jump all over people here or some poor schmuck critic who is unlucky enough to be quoted by me for their opinions.
That critic, btw, turns out to be my kind of guy -- a silicon valley businessman who in his spare time managed to reach the finals of the Van Cliburn amateur competition and writes pretty well about classical music. Sorry, but the opinions of people like that mean a lot more to me than those of Dudamel or Tilson Thomas that you quote. Unlike them, or you, he has no skin in the classical music business and is writing his opinions for the sheer love of it. OTOH, once I've heard for myself, I'm really not that interested in what ANY critic says. I will not be quoting critics here again.
I am biased but I think I am quite fair. I never give anyone any grief for merely not liking her music. I have no problem with that. it's a matter of taste. I did not jump all over the poor schmuck for his opinion. I merely pointed out that one can support their own biases by cherry picking from critics and I gave you a very good example by cherry picking reviews that concurred with my own opinions. But there is a big difference between not liking her work questioning her understanding of music.
As for her self promotion I am just correcting misinformation. I have seen posts claiming that there is a team of "experts" picking out her dresses for maximum publicity and promotion. That her whole career is on this master plan devised by marketing experts.
I have been in her dressing room before concerts where she holds up a couple dresses that she just bought and says "which one?" I pointed and she wore it. That is simply the reality of the situation. Even this time around at the Bowl. I was egging her on to wear the sexiest dress she has in her "concert" wardrobe. Her responce? "Really?! OK LOL" I even suggested a white one that I think is extremely sexy. She was going to wear that one based on my suggestion but then opted for the black one because the orchestra wears white. She wore the blue dress because she forgot the dress she wanted to wear at home. Literally left in on her piano. does that sound like a marketing strategy to you?
There is no team planning her career. And there would be nothing wrong with it if that were the case. I am always encouraging her to to get a team of experts to help her break out into the main stream.
Also this whole thing about the effect of her being Chinese is just way off base. yes, she is Chinese. But how she plays has next to nothing to do with that. Her hero is Horowitz. Her primary teacher is Graffman. Her biggest influences have been Michael Tilson Thomas, Charles Dutiot and Claudio Abbado. She started training in Vancouver at the age of 11 and went to Curtis at 16. She loves Russian music! I just don't think one can draw any meaningful connections between her being Chinese and how she plays piano.
It is interesting that her hero is Horowitz. Horowitz built his career on his technically abilities at the keyboard and played music that showed off is fabulous technical skills. I believe Richter in describing Horowitz said 'Great technique, mediocre mind" Again I find her one of the more interesting young pianists and look forward on how she will develop in coming years.
Alan
where was this, at Hollywood Bowl w LAPhil?
I will be hearing Hilary Hahn with the principal cellist soon, doing the Brahms Double. Doubt that HH will wear a micro dress.
Yes it was the Bowl with EPS and the LA Phil
No Hillary Hahn soon--she cancelled the rest of the summer due to an inflamed muscle.
new violinist.
have you heard this player in Cleveland yet?
No, we haven't had Ibragimova in Cleveland yet. Curiously, her website shows her playing in Verizon Hall in Cleveland in Octobet with the Philadelphia Orchestra. And of course Verizon Hall is in Philly.
it's another Alina, see link again...and she seems to meet Chris' babe requirements.
I will be loving it no matter what, but obviously with some discernment. Wish you guys were here.
nt
No doubt that the visual component makes up an ever more important part of any performing arts presentation in our culture, nothing wrong in being attractive if it helps make up for artistic part.
I believe that classical performers are definitely learning from the pop world how to go about cashing in with their looks.
With female classical performers we have come a long way from the days of Wanda Landowska and if that trend continues I can see where in not too distant future we will enjoy Chopin performed by a babe in full blown Victoria Secret outfit.
Vahe
There is nothing like the little black dress....
Too bad she can't wear the dress and the shoes always...
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