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In Reply to: RE: A note from Magnepan posted by josh358 on March 18, 2017 at 08:21:45
Great update; I'm sure they have a lot on their plates. However I'm not sure what he means by "business was easier when there were competitors" Is he saying there's too much of a demand due to lack of alternate options in the planar market?
Edits: 03/19/17 03/19/17Follow Ups:
The other way around -- the market for large planars (and large speakers of every variety) is smaller than it used to be, so there are fewer large players in the field today.
It seems that people today want small speakers with a high wife acceptance factor, and small wireless speakers are becoming popular as well. It's too bad because as someone pointed out not long ago (don't remember where I read it) many small speakers have compromised performance -- drivers that are used near their excursion limits, marginal bass extension, limited SPL, etc.
I'm probably responsible for at least a dozen sales of Maggies over the last 15 years - I show pictures of my system when I teach my Architectural Acoustics class - and often discussions come up at lunch afterward. It is rare that anyone has ever heard of a planar speaker - and if so it is a Martin Logan they saw at Best Buy they mention. These customers are acoustical consultants, architects, environmental engineers, HVAC engineers, and other mostly technical folks.
I think it is the failure of the industry, the demise of the local hi-fi store, and then in some ways the lack of avocation we, as participants do in this industry.
We are a great point - with the resurgence of the LP and turntable to grow the practice of listening to music again.
"The hardest thing of all is to find a black cat in a dark room, especially if there is no cat" - Confucius
I think you're right, but how can we change that? With half of the country living out of range of an audio dealer now, Magnepan has addressed that with products bought through the Internet and "samplers" like the MMG. But as Wendell likes to point out, Maggies have to be heard -- it's their sound that sells them. And with only a handful of high end dealers most people don't have that chance anymore.
Even after being heard, and therefore of course lusted for :-), many people just don't have the room for a pair of Maggies in their home, even the smaller models. Big panel speakers will always be in the rooms of only the most dedicated music lovers/audiophiles; those lacking the space necessary for panel speakers are forced to listen to music via boxed ones.
I watch those shows on HGTV where couples looking for a new home tell the show host what rooms they need. When I went looking for my last one, a room of sufficient size and proportions for my speakers was my number one priority. Luckily my better half was willing to indulge me!
The WAF was happy for me to have the rec room in properties we were looking at. Those are usually in the basement. Which is where I ended up - but she wants that space for my workshop and office as well. Which makes most finished rec rooms too small.
Now she is looking at smaller houses most of the "finds" she comes across and shows me have me setup in a pole barn separate from the house. I guess she is cluing me in on something. ...
BINGO:
My major requirement when we bought our house (late 80s) was that it have room for my stereo.
We saw lots of larger homes with NO ROOM based on lots of little rooms, poorly placed fireplace and other thoughtless 'features' that it made me nuts.
Too much is never enough
If I ever move you can bet that a big mother listening room will be the second requirement, after only high speed Internet.
My wife let me take over this downstairs room. 16' wide by 34' long, just added a First Watt B4 and bi-amped
Edits: 03/27/17
That is seriously nice! Does she do polygamy?
awesome! In your profile I see you do wood work, I assume you made the rails(?)Would love to see after market rails in exotic woods.
Edits: 03/28/17
That would be sweet.... I too would love to see that.... You could do Tiger wood.... whatever.... Martin Logan has 'Bubinga' which is like a striped wood of some sort or other....
I get the profitability factor -and not being able to do this stock necessarily - but, the 3 and the 20 are obviously statement type of speakers in any room.... It would be really interesting to see them in some exotic wood - I agree.... I think I saw someone here or elsewhere doing something with bamboo... I just don't know if it would be the proper material or not...
this is from the tweaks section by EmailTim who no longer post here. He found someone to custom do his 3.6 rails .
they are cherry, I love woodturning too.
Wish I could have picked a house with that kind of space, but the few we came across that had such a space went rather quickly but I am ok with my 17X20 space.
BTW, have you tried a Limage setup? or something similar?.
It's true, alas. Not just panel speakers but all big speakers are suffering from this problem. Apparently it's why you're seeing so many of those narrow towers now -- they fit between the furniture.
Let them have the .7s. I'll have the 20.7s. Give me the basement. I don't care. These are speakers that are not background listeners. Maybe I'm a dinosaur. I don't care. What I know is that I love music. There is something about listening and letting your imagination fill in the rest. Just please don't stop making them!!
My lovely Tympany 1Ds, bought new in 1976 and enjoyed ever since. Room is 35' long and 22' wide with an open L to the right. Perfect for them. I heard them for 30 seconds at Lyric and had to own them. Have not heard any speakers I like better.
The way I look at it, the small speakers are so that they can continue to make the big speakers for us. :-)
I don't think the market for real speakers is ever going to go away, they're just becoming more of a boutique item -- and as someone with a small room I empathize with all the guys who don't have room for the big speakers that they'd like. The only reason I can get away with my absurdly oversized for the room they're in Tympanis is that I have a dedicated room . . .
I've always been surrounded by "civilians" (non-Hi-Fi enthusiasts), particularly other musicians, to whom computer speakers are now the standard Hi-Fi system. One of my old bandmates came down from N. California to visit me in Burbank in 2006, and seeing the pair of Infinity RS-1b's I had a the time said "You know, people don't have big speakers anymore". I thought to myself "They never did", but held my tongue. People are now so distracted, pulled in so many directions simultaneously, multi-tasking constantly, that sitting in front of a good system and just listening to music is a very quaint, old-fashioned concept. I look over at my sisters in the living room---they can't even just watch a movie anymore. While the movie is playing they are on their smart phones, perusing Facebook and posting responses to other postings. I'm glad I'm old, and won't be around that much longer (assuming I live to my Dads age of 79), having to watch the culture deteriorate any further than it already has.
Edits: 03/19/17 03/19/17
I feel similarly to @BDP24.
I used to hope the s__t wouldn't hit the fan until I'm gone; now I hope to witness the beginning of the Great Die-off.
Have a nice day!
I can't enjoy music in that casual way. It just sounds wrong. It "reminds me" of music rather than "being" the music. Particularly unconvincing are headphones, and I stopped with boomboxes and headphone portables the moment I had the space and funds for a real stereo. Even in the car the main effect of listening is to have go dig up the LP or CD or file of what I was listening to in order to actually feel it. It reminds me more of what I am missing than actually providing a musical experience. At the office the boom box was always set low so that it was more background than anything else.
It's true. In fact, I find myself listening to other sources more often than my big speakers, just because they're there -- the little Monsoons on my computer, my wifi earbuds (I have a pair of Etymotics but they're too fragile/uncomfortable for everyday wear). That's one of the reasons I set my system up the way I did -- I'm hoping to be able to take a monitor and keyboard into my listening room and work from there.
I think part of this is positive -- it's nice to be able to have music when you're working. But of course when you lose the patience to listen to a symphony or read a good book you've lost something, and headphones can't yet approach speakers in fidelity with stereo recordings because of the in-your-head effect (although I've played with some very promising HRTF programs that like Out Of Your Head).
Another factor I think that's damaging two channel audio is that fewer children are being exposed to acoustical music like classical and jazz, so they don't grow up with an appreciation for it.
Then too, there are so many ways to spend your money on electronics these days -- computers, phones, home theater, smart home automation, what have you -- and I think these have sapped some of the time, budget, and social desirability of two channel; whereas a kid might once have shown off his stereo, now he shows off his new iPhone or what have you. Even cars don't have the cachet they used to, from what I've read.
I will say josh - my 24 year old son writes classical and was in a jazz program. He has written 6 string quartets and is working on his first symphony. Although I never really listened to jazz or classical (he really introduced me) - he did like to sit and listen with me. Not background music... but serious listening. Now he comes in - buys classical cds and listens on my stereo. He is going gaga over the possible arrival of the 20.7s this summer. He refers to them as 'texture machines'. We went on a boondoggle to listen to the 20.7 in Evanston Ill with my brother. Only people here could understand if I said the event is something we will be talking about. So there is hope.
The other angle w the movement towards smaller speakers could also parallel cheaper cost. I mean if I want to pay 4-13k on speakers - I want something very substantial. I find big speakers as a room compliment - not a detriment. Of course you need the space...But that's me. :)
Great about your son! I like his characterization -- texture. It's always hard to characterize what I find special about good reproduction. Yes, it's realistic, and can play pretty loud and hit the low notes, most of them. But still, you can hear the same music on a table radio. So what does it add? I think texture is as good a word as any. The sound isn't homogenized. It's a living, breathing, organic hole and that I think adds to my enjoyment.
Otherwise, I think guys in general want the biggest speakers they can get. Women, on the other hand, complain about speakers the size of earbuds! While of course delighted to pile up their own junk.
Congratulations Tim, looks like you have done an incredible job of raising your son! I have a dearly departed friend (he died from a heart attack at only 56 years of age, the result of his terrible diet) who was the smartest guy I've known in this life. He was put ahead a grade twice in elementary school, his mother (a college professor of language) refusing a third as she felt he would be too much younger than his classmates! I played with him in a musical group in high school, and then in college as he studied music as his major at first San Jose State and then The University of California at Riverside. He passed on his gift for music to his son, who is now an orchestra conductor in San Francisco. My friend gave me the great gift of exposing me to the glories of the music of J.S. Bach. He loved harmony (that of The Beatles, The Beach Boys, C,S,& N, etc. as a kid, later just in general), and I believe his son specializes in choral music. A father and son sharing the love of music is a beautiful thing---I envy you!---Eric.
Awesome story Eric. My son is also in northern cali. He is so immersed into the creative aspect - and I am trying to see if he can market his quartets. :). He actually had a string quartet from the Argentina symphony record 3 of them in 96/24. The recordings are very 'in the room'' with no compression.
It may well be a only tiny fraction of the population but there are many thousands of young people who spend their entire day practicing an instrument in hope of winning a competition, perhaps followed by landing a spot in one of our orchestras, and/or career etc. (And before that, they did the same while even younger and in 'school'. It doesn't prevent them from using social media, etc. Even President Trump manages it. :-))
Attending a classical music concert, opera, ballet, recital etc., one see can see 2-3 thousand people of all ages glued to their seats for a couple of hours (Well, there are intermissions.)
I read somewhere that a surprising number of people say they sometimes listen to classical. It may just be on the radio when they're driving, but it suggests that audiences are still there. Orchestras have paradoxically been hurt by recordings, since going to a concert is expensive and an event in itself. But for someone like me who no longer lives in civilization, they're a boon. :-)
I stopped going to concerts routinely because I started choking in the halls and my coughing was a nuisance for the audience, besides which, I would rather stay at home than sit outside of my preferred seats at the center front, which are always short on availability and high in price. A great deal of my musical enjoyment comes from having a good sense of the tactile detail that you can only hear up in the front, and from the sensual scale of the ensemble or instrument, not just loudness and the sheer power of the orchestra.
OTOH, one of my worst concert experiences was in the front center row at Carnegie Hall, with Von Karajan conducting the ninth. The chorus was frying my ears! They were literally distorting (a very loud female chorus sometimes does that to me) and painful. Hard to imagine what it would have been like on the podium!
But that's a one off. I've heard conductor say they wish the audience could hear what they do from the podium, and I can believe them.
I'truth, I think my main objection to concerts is that they insist on programming stuff I don't much like. I don't see why every concert has to be a smorgasbord. It's particularly problematic when they program some awful 20th century piece that nobody would listen to if they had a choice.
I hear you but I don't know... I look at my kids, now in their 20s and they and their friends are so smart and are so interested in music of all genres and art and travel and they read and they care about those silly facebook friends. They work a ton of hours for really good companies and then really enjoy their weekends and days off. They are way ahead of where I was at their age. Miles ahead.
Amen. Same with mine...
Do not be silly.l Screw them...Great music system is the antidote to despair and numbness of spirit. Music makes you live longer that you would have expected, but one needs the equipment to enjoy it.
Yes, but it doesn't need to be an audiophile system. I've been enjoying music for close to 6 decades, and as you might guess, on a wide range of equipment. From my parents Telefunken console to a Walkman to the several means of audio reproduction I use now, I've enjoyed the music on every piece of equipment I used.
Regards,
Steve
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