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In Reply to: RE: Going active on Tympani 1Ds posted by josh358 on January 16, 2017 at 13:40:56
Hi mate,
Please give consideration to the following photo.
As you can see I have put the drivers in wooden frames with metal frames for support.
Now have a look at the smaller panel. This is the what used to be the tweeter - now midrange, and the ribbon. The distance between the two is approximately 45mm. This applies to both sides.
Please remember that prior to this the imaging that I was getting BEFORE going active was simply sublime! I cant stress that enough.
I have simply added in the pair of subs in mono and added the ribbon for the higher end.
I dont quite understand the suggestions particularly about the addition of the neo's. Sorry I should rephrase that I can see that there would be benefit however are we not forgetting that I am simply making these speakers into a 3 way from a 2 way. Is it not the case that the Tympani IVas are a 3 way as opposed to the intrinsic 2 way setup of the 1Ds.
Sorry I am a bit lost at the suggestions.
The whole point was to try and go 3 way active. That is to go from the 2 intrinsic 2 way setup and go active with a minidsp running the show.
The frequency response is listed at +/- 3dB from 40 to 20,000Hz.
The internal XO is at 1100Hz with a 6dB octave.
I read that as the TWO bass panels covering the frequency spectrum FROM 40Hz TO 1100Hz where they are cut off and the remaining tweeter driver then dealing with all frequencies above 1100Hz.
Is that how you read it.
I cant see it any other way because as I said the physical configuration is a single wire going into the bass panels which are bridged and then coming back out. There simply cant be - not as I can see it anyhow one bass panel dealing with signals from 40-400 and the other one from say 400-1100.
So lets go with 40Hz as a start point. Everything else underneath that would be covered by the subs.
Would I cut this pair off at 1100 which is the intrinsic XO as stated in the manual?
How would I know what to cut the mid off at and then introduce the ribbons for the HF? I cant go off any manual because the tympanis never had a ribbon so really I would be relying upon what the maggie ranges do when introducing the ribbons. Does that sound reasonable guys.
Follow Ups:
Nice job with the frames!
Yes, I'd use Magnepan's crossove points as a starting point. That would be 1100 Hz single pole for the woofer/midrange crossoer. The ribbon in my IVa's is crossed over at about 3 kHz with a higher-order XO. I wouldn't cross over lower than what Magnepan recommends to avoid excursions that could shorten the life of the ribbon, *however* if you are using a higher order crossoevr than Magnepan's you can likely lower it a bit.
The Neo-8's are high quality push-pull quasi-ribbon drivers and in a line can be crossed over lower than the 1-D tweeter. I'm not sure how much of a difference it would make in the setup since the 1-D tweeter was also push pull but wire, and you've redone your woofers with foil. So just an idea. If you're getting great imaging, then it sounds like you don't have a problem (I used to have 1-D's and had the same imaging problem Roger has).
Finally, Satie has pushed up the ribbon crosssover frequency on his Tympani IV/Neo-8 combination and crossed them over at 6 dB/octave or IIRC without a low pass on the midrange. But what works for him might not work for you since you're using a different tweeter. It might be worth an experment, though.
Hi mate,
Yes very nice job indeed. Obviously resolves the issue of distance between the midrange and ribbon doesnt it.
Okay did an historical search and found the following:
For 20.7s -
Low-pass (bass): 18dB Butterworth @108Hz
High-pass (midrange/tweeter): 6dB @330Hz
Crossover between midrange and tweeter is
approximately 3000Hz and is non-defeatable.
For 3.6 -
Crossover between bass and midrange is 200Hz
Crossover between midrange and tweeter is 1700Hz
Tympani IVA
Crossover between midrange and tweeter is 3000Hz
Maggie IIIAs
Crossover between midrange and tweeter is 3000Hz
It seems that XO to ribbon at 3000Hz is a fair number to work with.
What do you think based on this history. Highly suggestive that it is.
I'm not sure f the figure for the 3.6 is correct, given the fact that it's so much lower than the other specs. Did you get it off the historical table on this sie? that has some errors in it.
I do remember reading Jim Winey saying years ago that they'd tried running the ribbon at lower frequencies and had settled on the crossover they currently used for reasons of reliability. So I agree that 3000 Hz is a good starting point.
BTW, I've thought of doing what you did with the mid and tweeter in my IVa's. The closer the better an in my house they don't need the wider separation that Magnepan puts in their commercial models to maintain structural strength. But where would I ever find the time! Another project for the future (sigh).
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