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In Reply to: RE: The correct magnepan for my room posted by partell on December 31, 2016 at 13:10:21
For Magnepans to work properly, you will need to pull them 5 or 6 feet into the room. If you can do that, you'll be fine with any Magnepan.
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I'd shoot for 20.1's if you want to keep the cost down, white fabric, oak rails and I'd never leave that room.
I initially drooled when I first saw your incredible room but upon reflection (sorry) I did seem to wonder how you'd be able to get them to work with the glass windows and asymmetrical area by the fireplace.
And as Russ noted Maggies will indeed rule a room; they could work along with treatments and perhaps a room divider to block that space opening but this changes an almost inconspicuous setup into an overpowering Maggie showroom.
The room is large19x21 with a 12 foot ceiling and is open to the kitchen and dinning room which have 9 foot ceilings.The fireplace will have stone to the 12 foot ceiling,not sure if this will affect anything. I guess I am stuck here with what I can do.I will be finishing the basement with a home theatre room down the road but wanted something killer and elegant upstairs to listen to music. I was thinking on the lines of the rogue cronus magnum with maggie 1.7s . I was thinking these would go together but was looking for opinions.The feedback I am getting is not leaving me feeling warm and fuzzy about the maggies in this room.The maggies are my first choice,does anyone have any other suggestions that would work in the situation that would be amazing?
Thank again guys for your input ! I am sure most of you in the forum have more experience than me.Its been years since I put together a system and it was a home theatre setup.
If the speakers can be pulled out 6 or so out from the fireplace as front wall then a pair of MG20.1 would do just fine as the wall is not going to have big vertical variations in depth and isn't creating deep alcoves. The windows can be treated with heavier cloth covered vertical blinds or heavy curtains. These things would be a problem for any speaker you put up there, not just maggies.
Other options include the new Carver ALS towers. They lack the big maggie ribbon tweeters so will not have as much detail to provide you but will do better dynamically.
If your budget extends to the really large planars like the Soundlabs then that is an option too,
The GTA3 ribbon planars and separate dipole bass towers can ease the placement issues and provide better clarity since the bass and top sections are separate.
Similarly GR Research are working on a new model with planar mids and a separate OB subwoofer and apparently monopole planar tweeters that would be easier to place near an irregular wall.
In tall line sources the wallet removing Scaena system with separate bass units is another option in ribbon speakers, but they are monopoles. http://www.scaena.com/speakers.html
At a more reasonable cost Roger Russel can build you a tall line source with no crossover which is much more flexible in placement - some use that at the wall. Also monopoles
The Martin Logan hybrid ESL speakers are slightly easier to place than a dipole speaker with dipole bass.
Of course, then there are normal multiway box speakers with careful attention to time alignment and phase preservation that can also image like the dickens. Best values are from Vandersteen, and in hybrid dipoles are the Legacy Aeris and up to the Whisper variants though without the "simple". crossovers of the Vandersteens.
Thanks for the information.I will check them out.I talked to rogue audio today and explained the situation ,he seemed to think the Cronus would be a good match for the 1.7 says they have used the Maggie's with that amp at shows.
THERE ARE DEALERS IN NJ WHO WOULD ARGUE DIFFERENTLY. I HEARD THE CRONUS WITH THE 1.7 'S IN 2011 (NOT THE PRESENT UPGRADED INCARNATION) AND I THOUGHT IT DELIVER AT THE BOTTOM END OR SUPPLY EXHILARATION OF POWER FOR THE CLASSICAL MUSIC I LISTEN TOO. THE 1.7'S ARE A GREAT CHOICE. MY ROOM IS LARGER THAN YOURS , WITH 10' CEILINGS AND FOUND FOR THE MONEY SOLID STATE WORKS BEST. POWER AND CLARITY ARE CHEAP THESE DAYS.
I am leaning toward the rogue atlas amp with the Rp1 pre amp hoping that will free up some power over the Cronus.If the bass seems weak I will consider adding a sub.I need some recommendations on decent cables for the speakers that won't break the bank.I was looking at some sota turntables the comet is in my price range anyone have any experience with these?
The Rogue Atlas is likely a better match. Both the RP-1 and the Atlas are highly regarded. As Utley said, there are far more choices in SS and tubes at this price point and they do tend to sound more similar. So if SS has an attraction for you then do look at alternatives in that direction. You might also want to check out a pro audio class D amp that can deliver near 1kw at 4 ohms to get a sense of what output the speaker can produce and how much of it you need. The Crown XTi series is powerful and performs well with an inoffensive tonal balance. . Once you established your listening habits with this speaker then go on to get a permanent amp that fits your bill.
If you are already familiar with the Rogue amps then just go and get it.
Thanks guys for your advise.The rogue setup is closer to $ 4,000 with the 100 watt Atlas and the Rp1 .It just has more imputs ,better phono stage and obviously the pre amp has its own power supply,As the Cronus has to share its power supply with the built in pre amp.I could get the rogue m-180 mono blocks 180 wpc with Rp1 for less than 7,000 but was hoping to keep the cost below that for powering the speakers.
That is why I was suggesting finding out how much power you need using a relatively cheap amp with decent resale market value... The Crown XTI amp idea accompanied with an SPL meter with fast peak hold response will tell you what your power requirement actually is. 1kw into 4 ohms for well under $1k.
Maybe I am going at this the wrong way? should i be looking at the 3.7 for this room? Would the Atlas and rp1 still work or would I need more power?
3.7s will need an arc welder for an amp. Few people would be happy with a lower power amp, 3.7s and a large room.
This is a question of your listening habits and the size and particulars of your room.
The room is not too large for a 1.7 but it might be a bit bass light and need subs. It is a perfect size for a 3.7 or a 20.7 - again depends on your listening preferences.
Whichever speaker model you end up with you need to find out how you listen to it. Which is why I still harp on the amp. It would be a waste if you end up buying an Atlas on Saturday and find out the sound is lovely but too anemic for your tastes in that room. On the other hand if you got a rogue M180 and found it to be more powerful than you need, then you chucked out $3k extra for something you don't need. Last, perhaps you are a secret bass blaster at heart and need a kilowatter to scratch your itch.
The highest satisfaction is expressed by folks driving their 1.7 and more so a 3.7 by something like a Sunfire 600, a Sanders Magtech amp, gigantic tube amps like the old Rogue Apollo and Bryston 7B. On the cheap end, D Sonic and pro audio amps like the XLS 2500 and for a bit more the XTI 2002, on the other hand some will power them with 20 W triodes and be happy with the quiet listening they get.
Agree; that room begs for raw, light dimming power. Another reason I'd personally opt for a 20.1 since they can be bi-amped. My Quick Q4s put out 120 watts into four ohms -which would be fine at moderate levels late at night; but daytime, night club level listening levels the bottom end would gobble most of the juice. And I'm not just talking about popular or dance music either, the acoustic bass solo on Brubeck's 'Trio Brubeck' is a thing of marvel and will drain the power reserves on even the mightiest tube amps. Fortunately I have high current 1K watt mono Emotivas on the bottom to stoke the coals.Now having said that I wouldn't just limit my choices to Magnepans (as spectacular as they are), I'd also consider the big cat Martin Logans, or Soundlabs. And for the same price as a new 20.7 you can get a essentially 'new' Duetta (with warranty), others to consider- Analysis audio, and Sanders.
Edits: 01/08/17 01/08/17 01/08/17
I know a few of you have mentioned the Martin Logan's .I guess this is what you call a Hybrid with powered sub below.,will these produce the same quality sound as the Maggie's? I assume these would be easier to drive beings they have a powered sub on the bottom? I watched a YouTube video with the Martin Logan's Montis El with the Prima Luna HP man does that sound good ! Well it's YouTube so maybe sound is deceiving. Is the Prima Luna good stuff.Here is the link http://youtu.be/s-rtyg1qvb0
the prima luna design and build are top notch and the reputation is stellar. The price tag not that bad considering what you are getting.
The hybrid idea is great, but difficult to execute. I have my personal nits to pick with the ML hybrids, but I would not hesitate to recommend them for someone who wants stat clarity without losing out on a decently well integrated dynamic bass. They are a greater value with the powered woofer sections.
I prefer the old idea of a CLS with bass woofer towers or Tympani bass panels or H frame open baffle, because it is a tall planar speaker and has less floor interactions than the raised and slanted ESL panels on the ML hybrids. Besides which you don't want the bass to be shaking your mids and treble sections. thus the separate ESL and dynamic bass can provide better imaging than the hybrids.
Satie has it right. There is no way for me to recommend low power amps with Maggies unless you tell me you listen to chamber music at low volumes. Maggies offer a lot of value for the money but the money you save goes back into big amplifiers. My brother smoked a pair of the giant Parasound JC1s and a Maggie 3.6s. The 3.7 can just laugh at 180WPC if you ask them for too much. If you really want to run tube gear, you might want to look at a different loudspeaker or get some bucks together for a real house warming amp. They make stuff like this for a reason:
Arc Welder. :0) The next option I was thinking of was the rogue m-180 mono blocks if the the atlas wouldn't cut it.
Here is my experience with the 3.7i, Where I was able to hear high price ARC tube amps . And $18,000 Canadian solid state. At these prices amps performed similarly,-slight preference for ARC . You must compare a modest price solid state mono blocks with the ATlas. (I never heard the ATLAS WITH ANY MAGGIES) I am sure the ATlas is a great amp $7000 I would guess? You might get a better over all sound with solid state at a lower p;rice. Trust your ears before you put down big bucks. The Asylum is the most knowledgeable place around so read up. Please let us know how you make out. If I were spending that kind of money I would go with the 3.7i and then figure it out.
The match will sound good till you need volume. Then you would want the 1.7s supplemented with active subwoofers. The power draw on the Cronus would be too much when you are trying to do loud deep bass out of the 1..7 alone. Besides which the deep bass on the 1.7 distorts pretty quickly as you raise the output so the whole speaker would do better with a subwoofer. it all depends on your preferred listening volume.
I think you would like Martin Logans. Much easier placement. Easy to drive with tubes (I have run a 25 watt Quicksilver with mine). In a room your size with some heavy drapes they would sound fantastic. Look at the new Electromotion ESL X or go up the line if you want.
Thanks Russ what about the amps? any idea
At least 2+2s, but Spectra33, Spectra 44 or Spectra 66 (if you could ever find them) would sound awesome in that big room with the high ceiling. And save you thousands over the big Maggie's. You might not even need subs with the big Spectras. They sound great with tube amps (although you might want to go to the M180 mono blocks for them or any Maggie for that matter). You have lots of room to hide a couple of amps!
Just get a local tech to change/upgrade the basic parts in the interfaces and change the socks to Spandex.
I would kill to have a room like that for my stereo!
2 things to add.
The room is too big for a maggie alone, you will need a pair of subwoofers. If allowed, say with camouflage to make it look like soji screens you can use a Tympani IV or IVa in there.
The 8008 will power up a maggie well. You might have to work on the tonal balance with the resistors on the tweeters to tame the high end of the Aragon. You can also take it to a technician and have him jack up the bias current further into class A. That would tame the top end.
With subs you can get away with a 200 watter Without subs in that size room you will need over 500W at 4 ohms, preferably closer to 1kw.
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