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Hi guys, first post on Planar Asylum.
I am thinking of upgrading my current speakers, Totem Hawks. They are good, but I find the treble slightly bright and unnatural compare to some other speakers I have heard. I am looking for a speaker with a non-dome tweeter.
One speaker that has caught my interest is the Newform Research--namely the NHB version with the 7 inch Scanspeak Relavators and the 45 inch ribbon. It costs about $5k and seems to offer a lot of speaker for the money.
I know there was some controversy regarding very negative attack posts against this company some years ago. Most of the posts regarding these speakers are fairly old and people seem almost afraid to talk about them.
Anyone own a pair or have direct experience with them? I am particularly interested in the imaging/soundstaging abilities and a natural (treble) tone. Would be using a 90 watt tube amp to run them. Any other alternatives in about the same price range? Thanks.
Follow Ups:
Hi,
I have had 630's, and presently have the Line Source Reference (4, 7" scan peak version with 30" ribbon), the LSM's ( rear surrounds) and stacked LSM's (45" ribbons) in the recording studio.
The line source makes them the least effected by room dimensions of any speaker that I have owned or listened to.
I have owned MG12's, 1.6 and tympani 4A's from Magnepan. I enjoyed the sound of each in their own respect.
I used active crossovers and biamp.
I am looking for excellent time domain accuracy, flat in room response, fast transients and as exact as I can get playback of my recorded material in the studio.
I rely on them for mixing and mastering. I do not want a "sound" coming from my playback system, I want to hear it as recorded.
I set up in a typical triangle, centered on the main listening position, then I use 1/3 octave pink noise with an RTA, a SPL meter "C" weighted and slow response for averages and I always start micing about 1.5 meters away and half of the way down each individual speaker (in position) and look for a balance in average SPL between the tweeter and woofers, then move the mic to the main listening position for the combined speaker effect and room effect at the listening position.
The results in 10 minutes are great..
A dipole such as Magnepan are always reacting heavily with the room, that's what they do! I could adjust their position all year and have no hope of getting as close.
NFR is an outstanding company with an outstanding product.
I highly recommend them.
Cheers,
Tom
Thanks for the info Tom!
I have owned a set of the largest ribbons and used them in conjunction with both Magneplanar panels and standard cone drivers. I found them to be
sweet at their frequency extreme but in need of a higher crossover point than most woofers (the ones I could afford anyway) could comfortably manage.
They sort of forced me into a 2.5 or 3 way design.
They require bracing to stay upright in a house like mine, with kids.
I found that with a simple series capacitor and some attenuation that they were pretty easy to integrate into a room.
I HIGHLY recommend buying the complee package from the manufacturer.
I think you might do well considering the smaller ribbon designs,
as they can handle considerably power and are reasonably efficient.
Larger ribbons are top heavy, and a bear to move around the room.
FWIW - I finished building a wooden frame (after Peter Gunn) with MMG
mated to a simple amp from Bob Latino.
This is the most encompassing compromise I've made to date, and no fuss.
The Newforms are excellent but reselling large ones will be challenging.
Is it possible for you to hear a set, first?
Congratulations, you're an Ignoranus!
I own both the (modified) Newform r645's (V2 w/ported bass) and the MG1.6/QR and have to say that in terms of overall performance, they compare favorably. Each has it's strengths and weaknesses. There has been lots written here about the strengths/weaknesses of the MG1.6qr's, so I can't add much. They are both great sounding loudspeakers. I'm currently using the Newforms in my listening room...but switch them out from time to time.
With the r645's you get the high frequency naturalness and definition of the ribbons...this is the strength of the r645's. Another related strength is soundstaging and imaging, both of which, while not world class, are excellent. If the Newform r654 v2 has a weakness it's in the bass and the mid-range performance area(s)...IMO (and which, no doubt, have been addressed in the the V3 and the NHB645). The so-called "kitchen sink" DIY modifications which were popular with this speaker several years ago helped (but did not eliminate completely) these weaknesses.
While I haven't heard the NHB 645's, I guess I agree that at $5400 they seem to offer a lot of speaker for the money. But there is also a lot of competition at around the $6000+ price point...so I would have trouble unless I could listen to them first.
Finally, in my experience Newform is an excellent company which supports it's products and customers.
Hope this helps a little.
Thank you rwiley for the info. Most of the descriptions I have found on the Newforms do point out the weakness of the bass cabinets compared to the ribbons. It is my hope that the use of Scanspeak "Relevator" drivers (a similar one is used in my Totem Hawks and it is excellent) and maple plywood cabinet used in the NHB version would help overcome this issue.
I guess the only way to find out is to try them.
Years ago I tried maybe their biggest model (R45 I think). I returned them for brightness (they excited my slight tinnitus), but had I known about the possibility of putting a resistor in series w/ the ribbons to tune them like I do on my Magnepans, they may have worked for me. I will never know. It's too bad that they did not have any "tuning" documentation then; I don't know whether they do now. I could not get past that to comment on any other aspects but always thought that they had potential.
I could never even listen to my 4 pairs of Magnepans w/out turning down the tweeters some (except maybe my IIbs).
What efficiency do you want?
Something around 90db for 1 watt should be OK. More important would be an easy load. The Newform ribbons are supposed to be a constant 7 ohm load and greater than 90db efficient. My current Totems are 86db but my room is fairly small. Speakers are about 6 1/2 feet apart and about the same distance from me (basically near field). Since nobody has chimed in about Newforms, how about some others using non-dome tweeters. Elac, Coincident, VMPS, or ET come to mind. Some seem to be high sensitivity and others low. Very confusing.
I have the Neo3 and I am well please with it's dispersion. It is well documented for its great push-pull planar characteristics. I have it as a monopole at 90 db.
Afraid I haven't heard them, but if you're looking for ribbons in that price range I'd consider the MG 3.7.
On the violin: "Heaven reward the man who first hit on the idea of sawing the innards of a cat with the tail of horse."
Thanks for the info guys. As mentioned, I don't think a 90 watt tube amp (Rogue Audio stereo 90-modified) could handle the Maggies. I am not prepared to give up my amp or tube collection at this point. They would also be a little big (wide) for my small 14 foot wide listening room.
I kinda like the way the Newforms look--they would be going into my man-cave so there is no WAF to consider.
Nobody using Newforms out there?
There has to be someone who knows what they sound like, but I don't recall ever having seen them mentioned online. Maybe you could try some other forums, e.g., Audiogon's or the main Asylum speaker forum.
If you did decide to try the 3.7's, you could bi amp, keep the tube stuff on the mids and highs and use a big solid state amp on the woofers. Kind of a best-of-both-worlds arrangement. Wazoo has been doing something like that with his 3.7's.
There are also some other speakers that mate a dynamic woofer to a ribbon, e.g., the Carvers. The main problem with that kind of design seems to be getting the cones to mate seamlessly with the ribbons.
I agree with you on the looks of the NFs, a very unique appealing look, but then again I like to run my ET-8s fully naked(man caved as well) for what that's worth! ;)
agree if only from an esthetic point of view. I'm sure the Newforms sound magnificent from what I've read but I never cared for the design.I saw a modded one (or one damn close to a NF) once that had clear,tapered,acrylic panels (think along the lines of the large floor standing Infinity RS panels but of course smaller; flanking the Newform ribbons) and looked absolutely incredible . I'm sure wood frames in that regard could be made as well.
may the bridges I burn - light the way....
Edits: 02/21/12 02/21/12
Agree on both counts. I don't like the look of the newforms, and I've seen clear acrylic baffle cone/ribbon speakers of other makes that look incredible.
This is my pick for combining cones with a ribbon (Soulsonic) One that I
want to listen to someday. Fantastic looking!
I like the look too.
There was a discussion of these a while back on the Planar Circle:
Yep, costs like a car. $16000 Euros plus. I will take a pass.
they have a terrible website.
Thats a cooling looking speaker! Never heard of the brand, probably costs like a car. Anyone ever hear one?
'course now when I really need it....smh
This was back when hard drives were bullet proof
may the bridges I burn - light the way....
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