- Posted by Maggie OToole (A) on January 03, 2009 at 08:54:36
The time has finally come. After weeks of working with PG on the previously announced "Apogee Styled" and "Gunned" 1.6QRs I can now finally let you see the pics of the final product. Due to weather issues in Pennsylvania the project took a little longer than originally expected, but as I told Peter many times, I will have them a lot longer than I wait to get them. There was an upside to the delays...on my first trip from Knoxville, TN to Allentown, PA to pick up the speakers, the wood refused to cooperate with the finish oils being used and instead of picking the speakers up, Peter and I spent an afternoon auditioning the various crossover options we were considering. Second trip up....they were ready to go, loaded them up and made the agonizing 10-hour trip back to Knoxville, before I could get them hooked-up in my system and get down to some serious listening.
I now have about 15 to 20-hours of listening time with the speakers and all I can say is "unbelievable”. Not only do they look just utterly gorgeous, they sound even better....they are indeed the "whole package"
The speakers are constructed using ambrosia maple and peruvian walnut and as I did not already have a pair of Maggie 1.6QRs, I purchased a brand new pair from a fantastic Dealer in the Baltimore, MD area and delivered them directly to Magnestand. PG and I worked out the design on paper and in his artistic mind, and decided on using Dueland Caps originally, but as they just weren’t readily available here in the States, we decided to go with the Mundorf Silver/Oil caps. The final XO setup and use of other components in the XO are PG's design and any further discloser will be up to him.....but the sound is to die for. (I will elaborate in my next post dedicated to my listening critique)
Attached are a few pics, as I promised.
I want to publicly say...working with Peter was an absolute joy and a rewarding experience. Peter may not think the same of me, as I am a little particular, but he handled every phase of the project as the true professional he is. From the initial first meeting at his place of business and the design brainstorming session , to all the daily/weekly updates on the progress, the final pickup, and the follow-up by telephone after I got the speakers home....Thank you Peter from the bottom of my heart...Job well done!
Maggie O'Toole
Follow Ups:
- Beautiful! - Neuro 17:00:44 01/05/09
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- In Reply to: RE: Apogee Styled "Gunned" 1.6QRs Here At Last posted by Maggie OToole on January 03, 2009 at 08:54:36
These are absolutely gorgeous. The look is much more contemporary.
Aside from the slanted side, the frames appear more slender than the typical Gunned maggies. Is the width of the frame around the top and inner side less, or is this perception caused by the vertical grain of the wood and the darker trim?
Anyhow, it's an amazing look, and I'd definitely consider sending in my 3.6s for just this beautiful frame. :) :)
-- Nils
- Thanks For The Post - Peter Gunn 22:37:37 01/04/09
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- In Reply to: RE: Apogee Styled "Gunned" 1.6QRs Here At Last posted by Maggie OToole on January 03, 2009 at 08:54:36
As O'Toole points out I never got to see the final assembly (only a test assembly without drivers) because I had a finish issue which delayed delivery so once that got solved I had to rush them right out unseen and unheard so he could get them while he was still off work.
I don't know why he's being so hard on himself, he was a great guy who even drove me to go pick my kid up after Jazz Band practice the one day. He was a man who knew what he wanted which actually makes things easier for me, not harder, and he was never a problem and in fact quite the opposite.
I had considered this design for some time, but the problem was it would require pickup as I didn't think they would fit back in the original boxes. (I believe I will be able to design around that now that I have done a pair, so this design should eventually be available) I also drug my feet as I underestimated how much this would be preferred. As a period joiner my inclination is away from modern design, not to embrace it. Live and learn.....
We sat down at my kitchen table and hashed it out, which was enjoyable to do with a customer for once. He basically laid down the wood color design ethic (Although I thought (and still do) that it should also have had curved tops, but he didn't, so they don't). He left it up to me to carry this thru the rest of the stand which I did, and while there were actually one or two things I wanted to do and didn't have time for, I think the result turned out as we hoped.
I would also like to state again the design itself is not effecting the sound in any way over a normal frame, and the "method" of assembly is virtually unchanged as well. Yes, I did not get to hear these but I have made a lot of frames of very varying size (from very slim to super wide) and it has not made an audible difference yet. This is nothing but a cosmetic choice.
He did however opt for "upgraded" parts. He was actually willing to plunk down super change for the duelund caps (what are they, $270 a pop?) but they were on at least a months backorder, so he opted for the Mundorfs. I tried them with a few different caps and with some it got extremely detailed, but it also got fatiguing. Not quick, but usually about an hour in I was tired of listening. After much playing I came to a compromise. I think he may be getting a smidge more detail over my standard design, but IMHO it is not worth DIY'ers trouble to tinker with or pay for. In fact when he was here I played many combination thru my test XO platforms and the one he initially preferred the best? My stock parts.
With a lot of playing I was able to make something with the Mundorfs but as I said, it's probably not a path worth following. Of course it will be up to O'Toole to let us know how the whole thing settles out but to get a true evaluation I'd have to ship him a pair of stock boxes to compare against.
I am going to be making a demo pair of MMG's like this hopefully soon. If so they should be getting reviewed on 6Moons so that should be interesting, and I think this design will work better on the smaller ones anyway. I am glad these got so well received here.
Hope everyone had a great Holiday. I'm still exhausted. And you, O'Toole, do something with those untreated corners. :^ )
It's all about the music...
- RE: Thanks For The Post - Maggie OToole 06:54:40 01/09/09
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- In Reply to: RE: Thanks For The Post posted by Peter Gunn on January 04, 2009 at 22:37:37
PG wrote: And you, O'Toole, do something with those untreated corners. :^
OKay Peter I get it....I'm working with Mike at Echobusters@ and we have a plan in the works to treat the corners and the rest of the room.
Maggie O'Toole
- RE: Thanks For The Post - Maggie OToole 06:54:40 01/09/09
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- Very nice! - E-Stat 17:11:11 01/04/09
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- In Reply to: RE: Apogee Styled "Gunned" 1.6QRs Here At Last posted by Maggie OToole on January 03, 2009 at 08:54:36
I would imagine the stronger structure improves the bass response.
rw
- RE: Very nice! - Peter Gunn 21:56:18 01/04/09
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- In Reply to: RE: Very nice! posted by E-Stat on January 04, 2009 at 17:11:11
Thanks, but your post has the kind of implication that causes all sorts of erroneous info to spring to life, so what follows is simply a polite correction.
I am not sure why you are assuming the "structure" is stronger, but I can assure you it is no more or less solid than the original design. Second, stronger structure wouldn't mean anything anyway. A Magnepans inherent problems are not caused by unsolid structure and that also has nothing to do with bass output.
Finally, there is actually only very slightly more wood in total used than on an original. (yes, the bottoms are wider than normal but the inner tops are narrower than normal, plus the base is a bit smaller as well) In any event that would only effect mass, and mass as well has no bearing on the final sound.
Therefore this look is solely cosmetic, and trying to extrapolate a performance parameter from a look would be incorrect.
It's all about the music...
- So the side bracing and solid base offers no audible benefits? - E-Stat 06:59:58 01/05/09
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- In Reply to: RE: Very nice! posted by Peter Gunn on January 04, 2009 at 21:56:18
If that is true, why bother adding such? Are Grant Mye's stands also just cosmetic?
I assure you that the added rigidity of the steel frames on my U-1s do improve the bass response vs. the models with the same core that use wooden frames.
rw
- RE: So the side bracing and solid base offers no audible benefits? - Peter Gunn 08:41:59 01/05/09
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- In Reply to: RE: So the side bracing and solid base offers no audible benefits? posted by E-Stat on January 05, 2009 at 06:59:58
If you'd like an answer to this email me directly.
As for your second part stats are entirely different animals than maggies and have different issues. Yes, they have many things in common, but their inherent problems are entirely different affairs requiring entirely different solutions.
It's all about the music...
- I read the explanation on your site - E-Stat 09:45:04 01/05/09
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- In Reply to: RE: So the side bracing and solid base offers no audible benefits? posted by Peter Gunn on January 05, 2009 at 08:41:59
"Wood [vs. MDF] naturally and without hesitation absorbs and dissipates vbration."
My comments concern a different factor: the effects of adding side bracing and a solid base. If any panel speaker flexes fore and aft during bass passages, it will affect the wave launch and blur the result.
I also like your notion of improving their coherency which is why I favor electrostats.
rw
- RE: I read the explanation on your site - Peter Gunn 13:22:41 01/05/09
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- In Reply to: RE: I read the explanation on your site posted by E-Stat on January 05, 2009 at 09:45:04
I think your semantics are throwing me. By side bracing do you mean the struts on the back? As I said, my stands have always had these and the bases. They are not there to keep the panels from "bending" during bass passages.
Stock maggies don't have problems because they are "bending" anyway. This is an old, incorrect notion IMHO. They blur because the large amount of vibration they create in fact cannot even get to the mdf frames, and it stays on the mylar ruining all subsequent vibrations. Wood is the answer to that because it sucks up and dissipates this energy.
It's all about the music...
- RE: I read the explanation on your site - mracoustat 15:24:38 01/07/09
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- In Reply to: RE: I read the explanation on your site posted by Peter Gunn on January 05, 2009 at 13:22:41
Hi Peter Gunn here is the picture of the Acoustat 6 did not know how to put more than 1 picture on my post so i am sending you this other post sorry if there is a way to put more than one photo could sombody please help thank you
Acoustat's Heaven On Earth
Bow Wazoo XL
Electrocompaniet EMC-1up
Acoustat's 1+1s Highly Modified
- RE: I read the explanation on your site - Peter Gunn 16:12:43 01/07/09
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- In Reply to: RE: I read the explanation on your site posted by mracoustat on January 07, 2009 at 15:24:38
I got a hernia just thinking about picking those up. :^ )
They are very nice, I wish I could hear them. Thanks for sharing.
It's all about the music...
- RE: I read the explanation on your site - mracoustat 16:21:50 01/07/09
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- In Reply to: RE: I read the explanation on your site posted by Peter Gunn on January 07, 2009 at 16:12:43
Thanks your welcome if you ever get an order for a pair of 1.6QR in
zebrawood i'm sure those would be very very nice here is my friends livingroom with is Acoustat's 6s
Acoustat's Heaven On Earth
Bow Wazoo XL
Electrocompaniet EMC-1up
Acoustat's 1+1s Highly Modified
- RE: I read the explanation on your site - mracoustat 16:21:50 01/07/09
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- RE: I read the explanation on your site - Peter Gunn 16:12:43 01/07/09
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- RE: I read the explanation on your site - mracoustat 15:06:22 01/07/09
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- In Reply to: RE: I read the explanation on your site posted by Peter Gunn on January 05, 2009 at 13:22:41
Hi Peter Gunn i love the work you do on those Maggies i have a friend that does similar work on Acoustat's his Acoustat's 6s are in a metal frame and they weigh 600 pounds he did my 1+1s in a wooden frame he is now working on a pair of spectra 66s & a pair of spectra 33s will send pictures of those once finished keep up the good work
Acoustat's Heaven On Earth
Bow Wazoo XL
Electrocompaniet EMC-1up
Acoustat's 1+1s Highly Modified
- See my response to RickeyM -nt - E-Stat 13:52:03 01/05/09
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- In Reply to: RE: I read the explanation on your site posted by Peter Gunn on January 05, 2009 at 13:22:41
rw
- RE: I read the explanation on your site - mracoustat 15:24:38 01/07/09
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- Are you talking about the "struts"? - RickeyM 12:52:03 01/05/09
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- In Reply to: RE: I read the explanation on your site posted by E-Stat on January 05, 2009 at 09:45:04
If so, then I believe they do contribute to an overall, stronger structure. Keeping that long, thin panel from flexing back and forth does help Maggies do bass better IMO. This is also why solid basses are used. Gotta have something to anchor those struts and nifty hardwood frames to. Which is why I went with 2" thick maple for mine. Another member here went with granite for his.
- Yes - E-Stat 13:23:09 01/05/09
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- In Reply to: RE: Are you talking about the "struts"? posted by RickeyM on January 05, 2009 at 12:52:03
I was referring to both the struts and the solid base in my original comments. Not that the frame was necessarily thicker, but that the structure is rendered stronger via the additions not found on the factory models.
rw
- RE: Yes - Peter Gunn 13:58:57 01/05/09
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- In Reply to: RE: Yes posted by E-Stat on January 05, 2009 at 13:23:09
It is my opinion that all struts do when placed on stock maggies is allow more vibration to get off the driver, thus reducing some of the haze. This whole notion of "stiffening" is non existant, and stiffness is not this speakers problem.
So while adding them has an impact, it is only moderate and not for the reason most people attribute. Once the entire driver is in a wooden frame and stand stand their meager contribution is no longer even required, as the frames now does it all and you can't tell the difference with them playing with the struts on or off.
It's all about the music...
- mebbe so.... - RickeyM 21:01:00 01/06/09
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- In Reply to: RE: Yes posted by Peter Gunn on January 05, 2009 at 13:58:57
...but I like the idea of the speaker NOT being able to move back and forth or twist. I see the struts as a bracing mechanism, not something there to stiffen the frame. Being connected to the speaker panel and the speaker base, I can see how they " allow more vibration to get off the driver".
A question to Peter. How thick are the basses you use and have you experimented with anything thicker?
- RE: mebbe so.... - Peter Gunn 21:56:51 01/06/09
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- In Reply to: RE: mebbe so.... posted by RickeyM on January 06, 2009 at 21:01:00
The way you phrase it makes it sound like movement is actually observable. (and twisting is in any event impossible) That is not the case. Only one thing happens - the driver is vibrating a lot and it will take the frame it is in along with it but that is still just vibration, not physical movement. The mistake you are making is the mechanical dis-association the wood creates.
When your car goes over terrible holes, your tires vibrate up and down severely. Do you inside the car move along with this? No, you don't, even though you are connected to it. That's because there is a mechanical action taking place which relieves that energy before it can effect you. The same thing happens in a wooden frame. It absorbs the vibrations so well there is almost nothing left for a strut to do. They are only there to make the construction more over all stable and moveable.
You can believe this or not, but if you take the struts off of any of my modded maggies you can't hear any difference, and that is simply a fact. As I said, struts have an effect on stock maggies but only because they channel away some vibrational energy, not because they are preventing movement.
Yes, I tried thicker bases, heavier bases, different feet etc... makes no difference. These are all old incorrect notions about cabinet speakers that have been fostered on maggie thought for years and it's all wrong.
Maggies have only 3 problems and they are:
1 - An mdf frame which prevents the massive vibrations they create from leaving the driver.
2 - Poor part quality (caps, inductors, fuses, wires, binding posts, crappy connection ends etc... in other words everything)
3 - Bad XO design. It's essentially one driver. Every time you make the XO drive it like multiple drivers you introduce all sorts of problems.
That's it. All the rest - mass, weight, stiffness et-al belong to the real of cabinet speakers and have nothing to do with a maggie and her problems. Take care of those three things above and you're gold.
It's all about the music...
- "Maggies have only 3 problems" Um, you forgot one... - RickeyM 07:16:21 01/08/09
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- In Reply to: RE: mebbe so.... posted by Peter Gunn on January 06, 2009 at 21:56:51
Those bent pieces of metal that Magnepan humorously call feet. To me, they only become useful the way you use them.
On my MMG's I went with thicker bases to help keep the center of gravity low and the speakers less likely to tip over if accidentally bumped.
- Fair enough - Peter Gunn 08:18:15 01/08/09
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- In Reply to: RE: "Maggies have only 3 problems" Um, you forgot one... posted by RickeyM on January 08, 2009 at 07:16:21
That is true, and the person who came up with the height adjusting "swivel bar" should be horsewhipped, even if it was Jim Whiney himself.
It's the curse and blessing of this company - They are so tight they squeak. But it's what's kept them alive thru the bad times and if they had gone down where would we all be now? :^ )
It's all about the music...
- Fair enough - Peter Gunn 08:18:15 01/08/09
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- "Maggies have only 3 problems" Um, you forgot one... - RickeyM 07:16:21 01/08/09
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- RE: mebbe so.... - Peter Gunn 21:56:51 01/06/09
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- mebbe so.... - RickeyM 21:01:00 01/06/09
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- RE: Yes - Peter Gunn 13:58:57 01/05/09
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- Yes - E-Stat 13:23:09 01/05/09
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- RE: I read the explanation on your site - Peter Gunn 13:22:41 01/05/09
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- I read the explanation on your site - E-Stat 09:45:04 01/05/09
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- RE: So the side bracing and solid base offers no audible benefits? - Peter Gunn 08:41:59 01/05/09
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- So the side bracing and solid base offers no audible benefits? - E-Stat 06:59:58 01/05/09
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- RE: Very nice! - Peter Gunn 21:56:18 01/04/09
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- Much nicer than standard look... - Mr_bill2 09:47:29 01/04/09
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- In Reply to: RE: Apogee Styled "Gunned" 1.6QRs Here At Last posted by Maggie OToole on January 03, 2009 at 08:54:36
excellent choice!
Bill
- RE: Apogee Styled "Gunned" 1.6QRs Here At Last - AJZepp 23:27:25 01/03/09
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- In Reply to: RE: Apogee Styled "Gunned" 1.6QRs Here At Last posted by Maggie OToole on January 03, 2009 at 08:54:36
Wow, those are beautiful!
- RE: Apogee Styled "Gunned" 1.6QRs Here At Last - Maggie OToole 18:47:25 01/03/09
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- In Reply to: RE: Apogee Styled "Gunned" 1.6QRs Here At Last posted by Maggie OToole on January 03, 2009 at 08:54:36
You are right Wazoo....I'm sure they won't remain one of a kind. I need a few more days to collect my thoughts before penning my listening critique if I can stop grinning long enough to organize my thoughts. I am sure the design has changed the sonic signature of the "Gunned" 1.6QRs but need some time to quantify what I am hearing. The speakers seem to be changing a little each day as I listen to them. Keep in mind they where brand new 1.6's and never used along with the XO componants. It is a shame PG did not have time to evaluate the speakers in his listening room before I picked them up...he will just have to build another pair and spend some time with them.
- looks fantastic :) -nt - Green Lantern 18:06:45 01/03/09
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- In Reply to: RE: Apogee Styled "Gunned" 1.6QRs Here At Last posted by Maggie OToole on January 03, 2009 at 08:54:36
.
- question - Green Lantern 16:12:15 01/04/09
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- In Reply to: RE: looks fantastic :) -nt posted by Green Lantern on January 03, 2009 at 18:06:45
Q: what speicies of wood was used?
The XO box exceeds even the best cigar humidors I've owned over the years (and I've owned some of the best). Almost a shame to keep em' 'hidden' behind the panels!
No doubt every ounce of 'Maggie magic' is tweaked from em'; certain to bring you many years of enjoyment.
Again; incredible craftsmanship props to Pete;).
Congrats!
- agreed - wazoo 16:52:22 01/04/09
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- In Reply to: RE: question posted by Green Lantern on January 04, 2009 at 16:12:15
The OP states ambrosia maple and peruvian walnut. It really does seem a shame to have those XO boxes hidden as they are - they are truly lovely. The details in this pair seem a step above (not that any of the previous editions were lacking in any way). Don't you just love how the walnut trim on the slanted side increases in thickness from top to bottom? This is the fourth time I've picked up my laptop today, and the last three were just to have another look at those beautiful speakers - incredible indeed!
"Jazz is not dead - it just smells funny" FZ
- Good Eye - Peter Gunn 22:00:29 01/04/09
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- In Reply to: RE: agreed posted by wazoo on January 04, 2009 at 16:52:22
You must have been looking at them a lot to see that! You are correct that the maple and walnut have an aspect ratio which stays the same so as the maple increases in size the walnut does as well in proportion to it.
I am glad you like it. I must admit I am a little perplexed why modern designs are so much more immediately popular. That's my fault for being an 18th century joiner I suppose...
It's all about the music...
- I have nothing against the traditional design - wazoo 04:19:04 01/05/09
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- In Reply to: RE: Good Eye posted by Peter Gunn on January 04, 2009 at 22:00:29
I think the standard models are beautiful as well. There is just something especially appealing about the non-parallel edge. The fact that you translated that into the aspect ratio of the walnut trim just serves to make it all the more pleasing to my eye. Those boxes are awesome too and I love the fact that the struts and bases are trimmed in walnut as well. You may refer to it as Apogee-like, but this one bests them at their own game. Your creation is far more attractive than an Apogee, IMO.
I understand why you're perplexed, but I honestly think this one looks like a more expensive speaker - like something costing maybe $20,000. Perception is a weird thing. You have to admit that this was a somewhat more complicated build. I think the grain pattern of the chosen wood works (visually) very well with the joinery method used. You did an incredible job.
"Jazz is not dead - it just smells funny" FZ
Edits: 01/05/09
- RE: I have nothing against the traditional design - sogood 16:39:42 01/06/09
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- In Reply to: RE: I have nothing against the traditional design posted by wazoo on January 05, 2009 at 04:19:04
The Apogee design is functional, the slant is designed with a tuning function.
Dave
- no need to get defensive - Peter Gunn 09:28:53 01/05/09
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- In Reply to: RE: I have nothing against the traditional design posted by wazoo on January 05, 2009 at 04:19:04
Back when I got the shocker that there are people who not only prefer the MMG, but they actually kind of dislike the 1.6 even once modded the fact that all this is an issue of choice became abundantly clear. Still, I was caught be surprise at the reaction to these.
I think some apogees are really fugly, but the wood veneered ones are not. Of course they are not busy out back like a maggie is either, so there is more to look at. These probably carry that off without the severe industrial feel apogees can have. (although there will be those who prefer them for that reason too)
It is an entirely wrong way to think, but you are 100% correct when you say these are very modern looking and as such we assume, for whatever reason, that they are more expensive. (and why would we when we know that means mass production?) It is also very true that modern and futuristic stylings lend themselves to high end gear more. It suppose this is the beginning of the end for the old way then.
As for complexity, hiding the bases was simple and no more work. The problem with the frames came from the fact that all the grain runs up and down, even the top and bottom pieces. It will be impossible to do that in some species with a single piece, as you just can't get 9" widths in some things. In any case glue up might be better as this really runs the risk of warping as the bottoms are essentially close to a 2 foot wide board.
Doing all the glue up (and cutting out all the pieces) was time consuming, but the only real difficulty came from trying to make the edge pieces and cut them with the proper expanding taper. That was not fun, and it couldn't be done on the table saw. If this keeps needing to be done I am going to make a special box to cut them out in.
The funny part is I very much was looking forward to this build but the finishing issue turned it into the job from hell, and by the end I was so sick of them I just wanted them gone. It robbed me of any pleasure I had going in. (Like Ralphie shooting his eye out) I can't even say what the issue was because I don't know. I think it was a bad reaction caused by the peruvian walnut, but the finish went bad and the wood itself went bad. (got soft and stringy and nothing would dry on it) There were a few moments when I believed the whole thing would need to get tossed. It took every trick I know and a lot of luck to salvage them.
What I'm curious about now is what the reverse would look like - dark wood frames with a maple type trim.
It's all about the music...
- I didn't mean to sound defensive - wazoo 18:38:03 01/05/09
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- In Reply to: RE: no need to get defensive posted by Peter Gunn on January 05, 2009 at 09:28:53
I certainly don't make the 'rules'; I was just reporting my impression based on my understanding of them. For whatever reason, modern design and high end seem to usually converge (at least in the world of speakers (and turntables)).
That angled side and the expanding trim are two of the components I had in mind when I suggested that this build had to be more complex than the standard one. In any case, I wouldn't pronounce a death sentence for the standard design simply because of the reaction to this one. I'd be proud to own either design (though, not quite as proud as I am to own something I cooked up myself - warts and all), and I'm sure the general public is divided in its preference. As someone mentioned, there are advantages to the rectangle - one can place them tweeters in or out for one.
I'm sorry to read about the problems you had with this build and the sour taste in left in your mouth, but I'm happy to see that it all came out right in the end.
"Jazz is not dead - it just smells funny" FZ
Edits: 01/06/09
- RE: Can you give an example - Travis 09:47:21 01/05/09
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- In Reply to: RE: no need to get defensive posted by Peter Gunn on January 05, 2009 at 09:28:53
of what an "old style" frame might look like, maybe not the regular Maggie rectangle? I'm trying to picture what an "antique" looking Maggie might look like. After all, most tube amps still look "old school". To me, those dang Pass amps look pretty much futuristic, don't you think?
Still, I may be barking up the wrong tree. (Sorry)
"If people don't want to come, nothing will stop them" - Sol Hurok
- RE: Can you give an example - Peter Gunn 13:53:05 01/05/09
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- In Reply to: RE: Can you give an example posted by Travis on January 05, 2009 at 09:47:21
I'm not sure you can compare amps and speakers. Being an obvious wooden thing, a stand looks more like furniture. An amp is an amp, even if it has tubes. Besides, most old tube amps hid the tubes, and those that did not looked like this
and now they look like this
So it is easy to date them. It's like when you see a green, tan or yellow home appliance, you know it's from the 70's.
When I first made stands I designed it as a utilitarian thing, and so defaulted to a very basic look. I was originally going to mortise and tennon the pieces as well but the guy who first wanted them wanted mitered corners instead if possible, so that's why I even did it that way. I am used to building Pennsylvania German styled things and that is a bit of a "husky" style. I always very much disliked the Krenov school of modern design. To them, this is a cabinet...
To me it's just adapting, actually adulterating, japanese design to western values. But yes, it's all "modern" and clean looking.
I would build a cabinet to look like the thing on the chest below. That to me is a cabinet, and frankly more attractive
But it's apples and oranges and I am now beginning to realize that perhaps my old values do not, and should not apply in this genre and that if I am going to be doing this, I need to make the stands match the rest of the stuff it will be getting used with. I know in the past there were always people quick to chime in comments about my stands such as "Nice job, but I don't like the way they look". That has not been said about these.
Just more irony for my ever ironic life. I spent years learning all I could about the early period designs I loved, and meanwhile despised the modern ethic going on around me, and now lo and behold it has consumed me as well.
It's all about the music...
- RE: Can you give an example - Travis 15:11:32 01/05/09
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- In Reply to: RE: Can you give an example posted by Peter Gunn on January 05, 2009 at 13:53:05
"now lo and behold it has consumed me as well"
Welcome to our consumer society. :^0
My speaks look "O.K." from the front but they got that big butt ugly in the rear (appropriate, no?). Gotta have that cone woofer for bass.
Roger Sanders has made an effort to dress the butt up in wood. Perhaps it's lipstick on a pig. My older Innersounds are metal. I've never seen any electrostatics that looked any better than what Maggies look like, mostly room dividers or in the case of old Quads, space heaters. I used to have Martin-Logan CLSIIz and some folks think they were the best looking M-Ls (faint praise, indeed) but they were just a little fancier looking sans the butt. Maybe it's being able to see through the panel that's the attraction with some stats. I've always liked see through!
"If people don't want to come, nothing will stop them" - Sol Hurok
- RE: Can you give an example - Travis 15:11:32 01/05/09
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- RE: Can you give an example - Peter Gunn 13:53:05 01/05/09
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- I didn't mean to sound defensive - wazoo 18:38:03 01/05/09
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- RE: I have nothing against the traditional design - sogood 16:39:42 01/06/09
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- I have nothing against the traditional design - wazoo 04:19:04 01/05/09
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- Oops! - Green Lantern 17:48:28 01/04/09
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- In Reply to: RE: agreed posted by wazoo on January 04, 2009 at 16:52:22
I See it now! I was in a hurry this am on the way to work and kind of just glanced over the post;)
- Good Eye - Peter Gunn 22:00:29 01/04/09
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- agreed - wazoo 16:52:22 01/04/09
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- question - Green Lantern 16:12:15 01/04/09
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- beautiful! how did the sound change? - Magpie 17:45:43 01/03/09
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- In Reply to: RE: Apogee Styled "Gunned" 1.6QRs Here At Last posted by Maggie OToole on January 03, 2009 at 08:54:36
There must have been a change due to the extended boundaries, what are your impressions?
nick
- bea_U_difull !! :-)) - andyr 17:27:15 01/03/09
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- In Reply to: RE: Apogee Styled "Gunned" 1.6QRs Here At Last posted by Maggie OToole on January 03, 2009 at 08:54:36
.
- pulcherus maximus - wazoo 16:44:19 01/03/09
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- In Reply to: RE: Apogee Styled "Gunned" 1.6QRs Here At Last posted by Maggie OToole on January 03, 2009 at 08:54:36
No kidding, those speakers are absolutely gorgeous. The craftsmanship is magnificent and the design is simply stunning. Somehow, I doubt they will remain 'one of a kind'!
I'd grin like a fool just looking at them in my listening room. I'm sure they sound every bit as wonderful as they look. Try not to let your smile rip your head in half ;- )
"Jazz is not dead - it just smells funny" FZ
- Gorgeous! - Atver 15:41:34 01/03/09
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- In Reply to: RE: Apogee Styled "Gunned" 1.6QRs Here At Last posted by Maggie OToole on January 03, 2009 at 08:54:36
I can't wait to hear your impressions of the sound! I love seeing the pics from you guys.
I love the "Apogee" styling, but my 1.6's work better with the quasi ribbon on the inside in my stupid room, so wouldn't be a good idea for me.
Looks like I'm scheduled for March....thanks PG !!
- In what wa wouldn't "Apogee styling" work with ribbons on the inside? nt - andyr 17:25:21 01/03/09
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- In Reply to: RE: Gorgeous! posted by Atver on January 03, 2009 at 15:41:34
.
- RE: In what wa wouldn't "Apogee styling" work with ribbons on the inside? nt - Atver 19:00:39 01/03/09
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- In Reply to: RE: In what wa wouldn't "Apogee styling" work with ribbons on the inside? nt posted by andyr on January 03, 2009 at 17:25:21
Oh, I'm sure they would Andy, of course they could be built with the ribbon on the inside no matter how the wood is. BUT...then I would probably move and want the ribbons on the outside. Really just thinking out loud what will be best for me. And i think that is the typical rectangular shape, where they may be more versatile for positioning options.
I do love the use of contrasting wood types though....
- RE: In what wa wouldn't "Apogee styling" work with ribbons on the inside? nt - Atver 19:00:39 01/03/09
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- In what wa wouldn't "Apogee styling" work with ribbons on the inside? nt - andyr 17:25:21 01/03/09
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- WOW !! - Joe Schmo 10:23:33 01/03/09
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- In Reply to: RE: Apogee Styled "Gunned" 1.6QRs Here At Last posted by Maggie OToole on January 03, 2009 at 08:54:36
Absoulutely stunning!! I'm very eager to hear your detailed impressions of the sound. Enjoy and congratulations.
Beautiful work PG! You brought it to the next level of craftsmanship for sure.
Thanks for sharing your photos.
-Joe
They're not that big!
- beautiful! I can't wait to get mine done... Jan 18th!!!! - Enchantment1.6s 09:57:06 01/03/09
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- In Reply to: RE: Apogee Styled "Gunned" 1.6QRs Here At Last posted by Maggie OToole on January 03, 2009 at 08:54:36
.
- They look wonderful!! NT - panhead 09:26:56 01/03/09
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- In Reply to: RE: Apogee Styled "Gunned" 1.6QRs Here At Last posted by Maggie OToole on January 03, 2009 at 08:54:36
They look wonderful
- RE: Apogee Styled "Gunned" 1.6QRs Here At Last - dread 09:01:20 01/03/09
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- In Reply to: RE: Apogee Styled "Gunned" 1.6QRs Here At Last posted by Maggie OToole on January 03, 2009 at 08:54:36
Those are GLORIOUS!Dave
- RE: Apogee Styled "Gunned" 1.6QRs Here At Last - emsquare 12:42:52 01/03/09
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- In Reply to: RE: Apogee Styled "Gunned" 1.6QRs Here At Last posted by dread on January 03, 2009 at 09:01:20
Those are really, really nice. PG did a heck of a job on those.
What crossover config did you go with?
In search of musical bliss...
- RE: Apogee Styled "Gunned" 1.6QRs Here At Last - Maggie OToole 13:51:37 01/03/09
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- In Reply to: RE: Apogee Styled "Gunned" 1.6QRs Here At Last posted by emsquare on January 03, 2009 at 12:42:52
PG and I worked out the design on paper and in his artistic mind, and decided on using Dueland Caps originally, but as they just weren’t readily available here in the States, we decided to go with the Mundorf Silver/Oil caps. The final XO setup and use of other components in the XO are PG's design and any further discloser will be up to him.....but the sound is to die for. (I will elaborate in my next post dedicated to my listening critique)
- RE: Apogee Styled "Gunned" 1.6QRs Here At Last - Adrian B 07:46:37 01/04/09
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- In Reply to: RE: Apogee Styled "Gunned" 1.6QRs Here At Last posted by Maggie OToole on January 03, 2009 at 13:51:37
They look fantastic! I wonder if there are photos of work in progress so that we can all see how the drivers are secured in the frames. What thickness are the frames?
I ask becuase I have been quoted £400 to make something similar in London, UK, but another wood dealer has quoted me £60 for the wood (mahogany). So it looks like I'll have to make up the frames myself and need some help doing so.
Best
Adrian
- RE: Apogee Styled "Gunned" 1.6QRs Here At Last - Adrian B 07:46:37 01/04/09
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- RE: Apogee Styled "Gunned" 1.6QRs Here At Last - Maggie OToole 13:51:37 01/03/09
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- RE: Apogee Styled "Gunned" 1.6QRs Here At Last - emsquare 12:42:52 01/03/09
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