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I know that one-eyed s.o.b. PG will disagree with me but ...

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andyr

(A)

In Reply to: MGIIIA vs MMG posted by robber on May 9, 2007 at 19:41:16:

IMO, if your room is big enough ... go for the IIIas. They will give you better bass (as they're much bigger! :-)) ) and, again IMO, the true ribbon is something special ... although Mart, PG and several others on this Forum disagree!! :-))
But how big is your room? I would have thought to get the best out of IIIas, you need to have at least, say, 20'long x 15'wide x 9'high. Any smaller and MMGs will do just as good a job! :-))
The other issue is, as you say, "hassle". From my experience with my own IIIas over 15 years, you need to do a lot to them to get them to deliver the sound which they are capable of. If you *don't* do this then a pair of MMGs - particularly with PG's "going over" - will probably deliver just about as much.
Good luck!
Andy

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That's an Aussie for ya..... - Peter Gunn 12:35:24 05/11/07 (1)
Showed him a pic of my lovely one eyed willy once and he can't get his mind off it....

It's all about the music...
- ROTFL :-)) nt - andyr 15:02:41 05/11/07 (0)
  .
Room/Amp - robber 06:37:53 05/10/07 (15)
The room is roughly 18ft long 16ft wide with a sloped ceiling that goes from 8ft at the lowest part to 16 ft at the highest. (It extends along the long wall)
Not a big room- but getting them away from the rear and side walls is not a problem- no WAF in here.
I have the system set up on the far-side long wall. Generally- this room produces excellent sound. Imaging/soundstaging, good bass, etc. One of the better rooms I have had.
Amp is a P/P KT88 that does 70 watts. If the amp/speaker combo does not make me drool I am more than willing to go back to big SS. I want to try the kt88 though- I have a feeling...
Excellent info so far- thanks all.
- Re: Room/Amp - Peter Gunn 13:14:46 05/11/07 (11)
  I have always maintained that the good people here, in their love and enthusiasm, too often are more than willing to shove people at larger maggies as if they were some absolute holy grail. (well, it is easy to spend other peoples money :^ ) I would just insert a few words of caution.
  First off, buzzing means dealm and it means mid panel delam. So not only are the wires coming off there, I would say your odds at finding all 4 ends banana peeling is at least 95%, the degree of which is hard to say. If these speakers are within 30 miles of the ocean however expect the worst.
  So this will have to be addressed right away. You can do it yourself and save a bit of money if you are handy. However if you find you can't do it, then you'll not only have to pay shipping there and back but the charge for them doing it. That's about $700 more on to the cost of your "deal".
  Then, you'll find your amp does not come close to driving them like they need. So not only will you have to sell it, you'll have to scrape up the cash to buy something that does. What's our total at now? Oh wait, the tweeters didn't get replaced yet. If that has not been done it will likely need to be now or within a few years. Those are like $200 each or so? (well, they aren't cheap) So that's at least $400 more plus shipping if you install them yourself. And we don't even know if you'll actually even prefer this model. Lord knows I don't and didn't because I owned them once. Are we having fun yet?
  I am currently hot rodding my first pair of MMG's. I won't have results for about a week, but I am optimistic they will come damn near to the performance of the smga's. They are only an inch smaller than the smga's after all, and every 3.6 owner who heard my modded smga's has preferred them.
  My room is also almost excatly like yours (16 by 21 and A frame) and I get more than enough of everything. Plus, you can keep your tube amps with the mmg's.
  So whether you mod them yourself or have others do it, I think you'll get more mileage at a lower cost and increased performance from the mmg's. If you do it yourself it will cost less to mod the mmg's than fix the III's, you can keep your amp, and you'll be happier. IMHO that is.
  Whatever you do, don't base your decision simply on size is better so the III's are better. That's simply not true at all. Good luck.
  
  It's all about the music...
  - Crossover - Rod H. 12:19:46 05/12/07 (1)
    Not to highjack the thread, but are you going to use your own crossover design for the MMGs, or one of the several existing ones?
    Something similar to SMG crossovers perhaps?
    Rod
    - Re: Crossover - Peter Gunn 13:22:44 05/12/07 (0)
      I believe that fundimentally every maggie driver is the same. Same mylar, same wire and wire configuration (essentially), same magnets, same pole piece design etc...
      That being the case, it seems reasonable to assume there would be a "best" way to play this driver. (taking individual tastes into account of course means that design might differ per individual but should remain the same for each individual thruout the differing models)
      After hearing countless maggies I feel the way the SMGa was designed was the ideal way. It nails musicality better than any other way. In that light it was what I did to the 1.6's (and incidentally when he just got them the first words out of his mouth were that they sound just like the SMGa's I modded for him "only bigger" which for me means the mod was a success as that's what I wanted)
      So yes, these MMG's will be done the same way. Pole pieces turned around and a 1st order 6dbl shared series XO will be installed which will be completely unlike the stock design. With only a 1 inch difference in driver size between them and the SMGa I'm hoping to come very close sound wise. This one could bring the house down more than the 1.6 mod did. :^ )
      I should be posting pics and info about the MMG in about a week. Now that I and the powers that be have an understanding I'll also be posting a more updated account of the 1.6 mod too so others may duplicate it. (when time allows, and it will get archived in the MUG tweaks section)
      
      It's all about the music...
  - Follow up - robber 20:34:49 05/11/07 (1)
    What can I honestly expect with the wiring on these?
    They have spent 22 years on the seacoast-and will continue to stay.
    Do you expect these to be a disaster? It sounds like this is going to be more of a gargantuan pain in the ass vs a Sunday afternoon project.
    Thanks
    -Rob
    - Re: Follow up - Peter Gunn 20:52:42 05/11/07 (0)
      I bought a pair of MG-I's a year ago to mod and resell. They were down near the jersey shore which isn't too far from me so I went to pick them up.
      They were still hooked up, I got to listen to them, they sounded normal, made no erroneous sounds etc... the owner was a nice guy and straight shooter. No problems right?
      When I got them home and took the fabric off, the wires were literally 90% off the mylar. The only wires still on were about 5 inches worth right in the middle, with giant hanging spaghetti strings above and below that. I wish I had a picture of what must have been my jaw on the floor. (I think I had sawdust on my chin....)
      I still haven't gotten round to fixing them, and when I do it will be a monumental PITA.
      I can't tell you what these III's will be like. It is possible they won't be that bad. Still, if it quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, lives near the water like a duck.... if you're really gung ho on them, insist he open them. It's the only way to be sure.
      It's still my opinion you're better off with the MMG's in any case, at least for now. Like the crusader told Indiana Jones, "Choose wisely."
      :^ )
      
      It's all about the music...
  - That was one hell of a post - robber 20:30:51 05/11/07 (6)
    I have a lot to think about.
    Thanks
    - Re: That was one hell of a post - Peter Gunn 20:41:40 05/11/07 (5)
      I didn't want to be a downer, I just wanted you to have all the facts. If the panels buzz it means mid wire delam, and they usually don't start coming off the middle until the ends are a good 4 to 6 inches along, so you should expect to see that, especially given their age.
      It reminds me of a quote of Thoreaus: "It's far easier to buy a farm than it is to get rid of it."
      :^ )
      I think you can be real happy with the mmg's if you mod them properly, and all the cash saved can make the front end even better. (or buy music)
      
      It's all about the music...
      - Thanks a lot- I am going to go with MMGs - robber 07:09:46 05/12/07 (4)
        
        In Reply to: Re: That was one hell of a post posted by Peter Gunn on May 11, 2007 at 20:41:40:
        
        I put an offer on some MMGs.
        If I can steal the iiias than I probably still will. But your making too much sense...
        I appreciate it.
        Thanks a lot
        -Rob
        
        Re: Thanks a lot- I am going to go with MMGs - monk1 09:48:10 05/12/07 (3)
        
        In Reply to: Thanks a lot- I am going to go with MMGs posted by robber on May 12, 2007 at 07:09:46:
        
        The MMG is obviously the low risk choice and will deliver music straight out of the box. You should get most of your money back if you upgrade later. That said, you should keep in mind the MMG has very limited vertical high frequency dispersion. The highs disappear when you stand up. For some people, this is a show stopper. If you can live with that, then go for it.
        
        Re: limited high frequency vertical dispersion - wazoo 10:54:21 05/12/07 (0)
        
        In Reply to: Re: Thanks a lot- I am going to go with MMGs posted by monk1 on May 12, 2007 at 09:48:10:
        
        That is true, and it is something of an asset. The stated tradeoff *can* be a problem. The MMG's factory stands angle the speaker in an effort to relieve them of that 'short'coming. Whereas it is true that those stands are suboptimal (okay, that's an understatement), they can be replaced quite easily - there are aftermarket options as well as DIY.
        My own two cents worth is that I think you made the right decision - get both if you can. The MMGs are turn-key and the IIIAs can be a project. Of course, with a few modifications the MMGs can be spun into audio gold (but you can start enjoying them right away). That, I think, is their ultimate beauty.
        In other words, if you just want a project you can stop with the purchase of the MMGs - upgrading mine has been a very enjoyable and rewarding project (I'm sure I'll find many consenting voices here). Adding the supplementation of a high quality 'sub'woofer closes the gap between the two models considerably (on the bottom end). I haven't figured out what's lacking in the quasi-ribbon tweeter - sounds damn good to me.
        
        "Jazz is not dead - it just smells funny" FZ ♬
        
        This will be my third pair - robber 10:26:43 05/12/07 (1)
        
        In Reply to: Re: Thanks a lot- I am going to go with MMGs posted by monk1 on May 12, 2007 at 09:48:10:
        
        I can live with it-although I dont like it.
        Dont all Magnepan's suffer from this condition?
        -Rob
        
        Re: This will be my third pair - Travis 10:34:56 05/12/07 (0)
        
        In Reply to: This will be my third pair posted by robber on May 12, 2007 at 10:26:43:
        
        Only if you're Yao Ming.
- Re: Room/Amp - andyr 13:31:07 05/10/07 (2)
  Great room - I don't think you'll find IIIas are too big for it.
  But 70 watts - even tube watts - won't drive them well ... whereas it would probably be fine with the MMGs.
  If you replaced the external XO with an active and bought at least a 200wpc ss amp (into 4 ohms) for the bass panels, your tubes should be fine for the mid/ribbons. Then they would really sing! :-))
  Regards,
  Andy
  Regards,
  Andy
  - Ok I guess my room is way to narrow. - kff 16:23:55 05/12/07 (1)
    I discussed my room with you when I got my MG-IIIas and you said I need a bigger room. I am limited with 20x 13x 9--> 17 (same type as mentioned) so I have 20 fewer sqft, my room is too narrow and I have 28 more cuft. You indicated my IIIs would be too big for the room, but not this 18x16 room. Oh well I guess I could move a wall.
    Helping PG out because you remembered 'one-eye' so I am remembering your comments about the room being too small, or the speakers being too big. Thanks for all your help with the IIIs.
    Anyone heard of the Kenwood Model Seven speakers from 1976 that sold for $2600? 4-way box, huge.
    - A pleasure! :-)) nt - andyr 18:33:12 05/12/07 (0)
      .