Planar Speaker Asylum

Welcome! Need support, you got it. Or share your ideas and experiences.

Return to Planar Speaker Asylum

Planar Speaker Asylum

Maggies + subwoofer + maggie mates?

68.231.214.172

[ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ Thread: Display Email Next ] [ Planar Speaker Asylum ]

I'm thinking about supplementing my Magnepan 2.5Rs with a small subwoofer, but I'm using a nice old McIntosh C 28 preamp and 754 amp, which does not have any subwoofer out. I've tried running the amp outs directly into the high level inputs of an Outlaw LFM-2, and then running speaker cable from the LFM-2's "to loudspeaker" to the Maggies. It's nice to have the low frequency supplement, but I also feel that some of the Maggie's wonderful sound has been compromised. Is it because of going through the subwoofer? There is a guy on Ebay who sells "Maggie Mate high pass modules," supposedly just for that; (below is what he says).
Has anyone used these crossovers?
And what about just running separate speaker cables via a Y cord to the Maggies and the subwoofer? Will that work, or does the Y cord degrade the signal, by splitting it between the Maggies and the subwoofer?
To complicate things, I'm getting some Zero Autoformers, and I wonder where they should fit in this system...
Thanks for your help!
Ken

From Ebay:
The problem with the high pass crossovers on powered subwoofers (the high pass crossover serving the main speakers--in this case the maggies) is that that, unlike the low pass, they are fixed frequencies virtually always crossed over at way, way too a high frequency.
These modules solve that problem. These modules allow you to cross over your Maggies at a much more useful point between 50 and 60 Hz, starting with a gentle slope at about 60 Hz (the precise point depends on the model you have and its impedance) and filtering out more low bass as you go down in frequency. This allows more power handling from the Maggies and more headroom from the amp--without gutting that fine bass and midbass sound of the Maggies!
http://cgi.ebay.com/Magnepan-high-pass-modules-for-smaller-Maggies-and-subs_W0QQitemZ200046265455QQihZ010QQcategoryZ3276QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/Magnepan-high-pass-modules-for-smaller-Maggies-and-subs_W0QQitemZ200046265455QQihZ010QQcategoryZ3276QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem (Open in New Window)

Follow Ups:

Re: Maggies + subwoofer + maggie mates? - Charles J P 07:38:42 11/17/06 (1)
I'm doing what I see many people here doing. I'm running my MMGs full range and sending a separate signal to the sub and dialing the crossover down. Anything involving crossing over the actual maggies sucks the life out of them.
- Re: It's the maggie bass... - Bogardus 08:07:48 11/17/06 (0)
  I mean, my MMGs don't go "low," but they go NICE... I've got a 15" cone right under each of 'em to add that little extra down low on the lowdown...
  
  Now where's my Barry White?
Thanks all for your help! [nt] - SeminarXX 22:00:14 11/16/06 (0)
Re: I run dual subs... - Bogardus 18:38:20 11/16/06 (0)
I run a Y-splitter out of each preamp output. One side goes to the maggie amp, and one side goes to the sub amp. I then dial the crossover on the sub amp way the bleep down. The maggie signal never runs through the sub amp - all I use the subs (twin 15s) for is to fill in under 50-60hz or so...
Option. - grantv 12:05:51 11/16/06 (7)
One used by many here including myself. Run your Maggie's full range limiting only the top end of the sub to suit (probably around 40Hz for 2.5's). This way there's nothing between your amp and the speakers (except in some cases Autoformers). If the sub in question has high level inputs you could use them from a second set of (no high end wires required here) speaker wires to the high level input on the sub.
- Re: Option. - SeminarXX 13:03:52 11/16/06 (6)
  Thanks for your help! In terms of your second suggestion: what kind of connector would you use to split the amp's output to the Maggies, on the one hand, and the subwoofer on the other. Can I simply double up speaker connectors, have two sets of wires coming from the same output?
  - What kind of input does your sub require? - CometCKO 14:09:18 11/16/06 (2)
    I strongly agree with the recommendation to run your Maggies full range and supplement with a sub only for the lowest octaves. The trick has always been getting the best match/integration between the two.
    Vandersteen runs the sub off the speaker outputs, and also inserts a capacitor on the input to the power amps (between the preamp and the amp). This filters the signal (first order high pass filter), so the main speakers gradually play less and less below the cutoff threshold while at the same time, the sub plays more and more. Hopefully seamlessly. My problem with this has been two-fold. First, the quality of the capacitor is critical to the sound. The stock Vandersteen one has a truly negative impact on sound quality, although an alternative one can sound OK. The bigger problem is that the crossover level is too high. That is, the Maggies will play cleanly down to around 40Hz, so there's too much Vandersteen footprint in the Maggie's sound.
    A better approach is that used by REL in the Strata II. There you can select the crossover level and gain to get the best match to your Maggies. Using a much lower crossover level is much easier to integrate, and the systems I've heard set up this way are much more seamless.
    So it depends on where your sub looks to get signal. If you have a low-level input, you could add a "y" connector from your preamp output, assuming you have one.
    Dunno if this helps you. Subs are a good thing IMHO. I no longer use one in my system, ever since adding the Mye stands to my 1.6qr's. that stiffened my speakers up to the point where I felt I could live without the sub, and gain a lot cleaner (if less robust) bass line.
    YMMV,
    Frank
    - Re: What kind of input does your sub require? - Crimson 15:04:30 11/16/06 (0)
      I agree the Vandersteen in-line x-over could be better. It was very easy to make my own with better caps. I do, however, feel that bringing the sub in to the mix approximately an octave above the speakers lower -3db point (regardless of whether using a low- or high-level signal) has a better end result than using it to fill in below the -3db point. It does take more setup, but I find it blends much more seamlessly. A shallow first order slope is key. Of course, YMMV.
      
      --I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for some new music today.
    - Hookup suggestions - CometCKO 14:25:40 11/16/06 (0)
      I assume that you're trying the zero's to present a higher impedence to your amp. The subwoofers that accept input from the amplifier terminals present a high impedence to the amplifier, so they can be attached to the same amplifier outputs as your speakers.
      I read your message to say that you're using the Outlaw bass management module to manage the frequencies fed to the speakers? I don't know this unit. Does it allow you to treat your Maggies as full-range? If so, that's how I'd run them.
      If your sub has the controls that allow it, then you can fill in from the bottom up, starting with the lowest frequency cutoff that you can and raising it only after listening to a variety of bass-heavy source material. The trick is to get the mesh right between the sub and your Maggies. I found that speaker positioning was more than half the game in accomplishing this and getting a smooth meld. Most rooms will have stronger/weaker bass modes. It's useful to identify them and use them to accent or ameliorate the bass augmentation as necessary.
      I found the Rives CD (available on the Rives site) very helpful in accomplishing this. It's calibrated to work with a Ratshack sound pressure meter. You can play test tones and measure with/without the sub, and in different positions which will give you a lot of ammunition for getting the best match.
      Hope this helps!
      Frank
  - Re: Option. - Crimson 13:23:25 11/16/06 (2)
    'Can I simply double up speaker connectors, have two sets of wires coming from the same output?
    '
    Yes. I run a pair of Vandersteen subs which have high level inputs. The speakers and subs are fed via the same amp outputs.
    
    --I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for some new music today.
    - Exactly. - grantv 14:06:52 11/16/06 (1)
      The wire need not be large nor high end, it's only carrying a signal to the sub. Just run a second set of wires from the amp output. Vandersteen subs are a nice choice. Finicky to set up, but great when they're done.
      - Does the high level connection from the amp to the sub.. - DKG 12:32:59 11/20/06 (0)
        
        In Reply to: Exactly. posted by grantv on November 16, 2006 at 14:06:52:
        
        have any sonic benefits , v.s. running a low level connection from preamp to sub?
        In my system my sunfire signature sub is connected to the second set of outputs on my VTL preamp.
        I set the xover at about 35hz and have the volume fairly low..works pretty well

This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors:

You can not post to an archived thread.