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I have seen (and tried) placing a pair of Maggies per the factory recommendations (and reversed). This will put the tweeters on the inside (closest together) or on the outside (furthest apart). Many pictures of peoples Maggies show them being used either way. Are there any test results indicating which method is better? Assuming not - Which way do you think they sound best?
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is the way your ears tell you!!
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or inside. This is an age old question probably as old as what is the meaning of life and maybe more important. The correct answer is whatever works for you and your room. Outside works better for me most of the time but every once in awhile I put them inside - imaging improves but soundstage contracts. I usually prefer a wide soundstage but that's me.
I may be an egoist but at least I don't talk about other people.
Does anyone not pretty much toe-in their maggies to be pointing STRAIGHT at the listening position? I can't imagine them toed in less than that as I've played around and nothing is even close to sounding as good as 100% toed in.
I’ve had them dialed in differently. In the larger room, they were + 7ft apart with the tweeters on the inside, and toed-in. I now have more length than width in smaller room and they’re ~ 7ft apart with the tweeters on the outside with no toe-in. The images are less defined, but the soundstage size is larger. They were better balance in the larger room.
(also no tilt) and there's no discontinuity of focus, or image distortion anywhere across the lateral or fore-and-aft soundstage (which, depending on the recording mix, may be wall-to-wall or beyond), including the "phantom center". The room's treated with at least as much attention to diffusion as to standing wave trapping, and my ears are positioned at the apex of an isosceles triangle. Toeing in with this configuration in my room (even seated a foot or two nearer the panels) tends to "close up" the soundstage without providing any perceptible audible benefit.Obviously a case of YMMV.
I have them basically pointing at me as well. I'm one of the rare ones that has never had any trouble with the 1.6's being bright and I want as much of the tweeter as possible. Also when I try them with no toe in I find the images are too big and soft.Cheers,
I have always run mine straight ahead so they are parallel with the back wall.
I tried them straight ahead and the center fill collapsed. I have not experimented a ton with degrees between straight ahead and 100% toe in.
BTW, my speakers are about 45" from the front wall, 3-3.5 feet from the side walls and I sit about 13-14 feet from them. They are about 13 -14 feet apart as well. My room is ~23x38x8.
Mine are much closer together say 7ft apart. At such a great distance apart, I am not surprised that center fill dies if they are not toed in.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b249/imahawki/IMG_5950.jpgThere is a picture, to give you an idea. That screen is about 9-9.5 feet wide.
Cool pict.I'll never have a room that big. YOu are lucky.
Yes, it is four Acoustic Elegance IB15 drivers in an infinite baffle. They barely move so distortion is extremely low and speed (if you accept that term) is very fast.
How did you figure out where to place them??
Expirimentation. Also, it makes sense that if you have them a little wider apart than what the manufacturer recommends, you would want to toe them in and put the tweeters on the inside to avoid losing center fill. As to the other placement parameters (distance from the walls, etc.) it is always striking a balance between bass response and clarity etc. Farther out into the room is almost always better, within reason.
sorry for not being clear. I was talking about the subs.
LOL, those are spots where there is no duct work in the ceiling, simple as that.
Maggie U recommends having the distance between the speakers half the distance between them and your ears.The equilateral triangle placement (similar to your setup) requires a distance of the speakers from the front wall at least equal to half the length of a side of this triangle (middle of the room placement).
These are simply points of reference from which your never-ending quest for optimal placement should start. ;~)
(PS: Toe-in is usually dictated by the distance between the speakers in relation to the listener, as well as proximity to rear/side walls. Zero toe-in works well when they are spaced closer together).
Thanks guys,now you've done it :)Here I was,happy with my Maggie HT.My HT is used for music and HT duties.3.6's up front, are about 7 feet apart with a Maggie center.
I've always had them tweeters inboard,with a slight toe in,until I started following this thread.
Last night I decided to try them tweeters outboard with no toe in.Recalibrated the system and sat down for a bit of two channel listening.
The wife decided I needed to go out for dinner shortly afterwards,so this is an initial listen only.The things I noticed right off,less treble,more mid range,with a decidedly stronger bass.Wider sound stage.
Is it better? not sure,it is different.I'll have more time to listen tonight.
Note to self: stop reading the thread,be happy with what you have.
Ya ,as if thats going to happen :)
...which has the 1.6's 78" apart (inner edge to inner edge), listening distance of 103" from the face of the speakers, and 2 1/2" of toe-in, I prefer the tweeters on the outside. They are setup along a 14' wall with a distance of 52" to the backwall (behind the speakers).I have realized a fuller soundstage without any loss of detail. For example, when I play Carly Simon's "No Secrets" I can clearly hear the 2 or 3 layered acoustic guitars playing their respective parts in the respective channel be it left or right. When I tried the inside placement of the tweeters, the guitars sounded more like 2 total with more attack but less of that airy layer of magic that I love the Magnepan's for.
At first I had my tweeters out. In my small room (12x12), it had a wide soundstage. Too wide, the center image suffered, so I switched 'em. I lost the wide soundstage, but the imaging was alot better. Now I've added absorbtion panels at the first reflection points on the side walls and the imaging has really jelled. Now I'm curious as to what it would sound like with the tweeters outboard again? So today I'll be switching them again to try it out.
It's a good thing these things are light, hehe.
Having used both MMG's and 1.6's in four different rooms over time I know now that this is room dependent. But I have settled on MMG's with tweeters inboard and 1.6's with tweeters outboard.
I have been swiching speakers MG 12 around, I like the tweeters out for movies,larger sound stage. But for music the tweeters in,more detail.
I keep tiring different placements to get the best of both settings.
of the distance between the speakers, the distance to the listener's ear, and the amount, if any, of panel toe-in. In my 14'+-wide rectangular room, with ~58" separation between my 1.6s' inner edges, no toe-in, and a listening distance of 10'6", outboard placement provides the best combination of soundstage presentation, balance, and phantom-center focus on the program material I listen to (mostly classical, jazz, vocal standards, film scores, choral, and opera). But, in line with what's been noted below, that's _my_ listening situation. A different room, etc., might cause me to reverse tweeter placement.
NO such thing as BETTER...every room and model is different.That said, I have found that the tweeters are more responsible for the center imaging, and if you have them close together, you will like the tweeter outboard, and if you have them far apart, they will sound better on the inside.
I like the mags set up very wide, so inside works for me. YMMV
My experience has been with 1.6s, 3.6s, and 20.1sI like them wide and I have them on my long wall, so tweets are IN.
Good Luck
I think that's the point that a lot of people miss out on - the key aspect is the distance the tweeters are from each other rather than if they're in or out. I have a fairly narrow room and I have to have the speakers on the short wall, hence the tweeters go out. If I was on the long wall it could well be different.Cheers,
C,Looks like you are dead on here!!
There definatley is a finite distance that the tweeters have to be from each other. ANy further, and the imaging suffers. On larger models, due to their size, it seems that getting to this distance is best accomplished with teh tweets on the outside...unless one has a big room, or is using the long wall.
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