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In Reply to: RE: Usually inverting the polarity posted by rick_m on August 01, 2007 at 07:58:41
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Follow Ups:
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nt
"silence tells me secretly, everything..."
a
Nope. Never even heard of it... I just read the plot summary on IMDB and it sounds wretched.
I find it a solid comfort being out of the popular culture. The minor downside is that even though I live in Springfield, I don't get most of the references on the Simpsons. Which actually makes perfect sense...
Rick
...I think it's stupid.
And so's Seinfeld!
clark
Clark, I don't have a clue of which you speak.
If I'm a being messed with, "they" are doing a great job because I don't know who's doing it, what they are doing, or in what manner I'm being influenced. Tell me more, perhaps my brain has been so skillfully laundered that I don't even recall the trip through the wringer...
I'm actually inclined to feel that I just gained an excellent insight from Stu with no effort on my own part. How can it get better than that? By golly, this forum is both fun AND informative!
As far as crossover's go, their compromises and trade-offs are hardly a secret or new news. I'm not a 'speaker guy' so I wasn't trying to optimize the design, just choose a different compromise. I believe that "speaker guys" are typically better informed and upfront about the tradeoffs of their designs than are "electronics guys". (And I'm one of the latter!)
Regards, Rick
If not, then they're not being terribly "upfront" about it are they?
As for their being "better informed", while they may (or may not) be aware of the havoc they wreck polarity-wise, is their being informed about it helpful to anyone?
clark
No, I think Stu nailed it: Frequency response is easier to relate to and sell. Perhaps due to the efforts of the FTC. However if the phase thing can be boiled down to something meaningful and possible then it could become a real marketing factor. And a factor in improving design as well.
I suspect that the key to it is identifying a subset of the audible bandwidth that provides the most meaningful polarity cues and specifying acceptable temporal performance over that bandwidth (the voice range?). Trying to do it full-range is insane unless you keep your head clamped or wear headphones. Perhaps nut-case audiophiles could help promulgate a standard. You would make an excellent point man to sell the concept.
I think audiophiles underestimate the importance "real" people attach to our opinions. Not that they would ever wish to be one, or associate with one for that matter, but still they want to have gear that is "audiophile quality" or "audiophile approved".
Rick
And it was all thoroughly covered in The Wood Effect (1988). I blame the magazines for neglecting this aspect; the old Audio used to do speaker reviews in which the phase distortion was measured *and published* in easy form, not the rather more confusing (albeit revealing) Melissa plots of today.
clark
Sorry, couldn't resist Clark...
Yes, I've read them. Heyser did a good job yet I don't recall them being particularly useful, maybe I'm just too superficial of a reader. I subscribed to Audio from ~1973 until they folded. Guess I mostly read magazines for interest and entertainment and largely ignore them when purchasing equipment.
Are you saying that you described a temporal metric that had good alignment with what listeners experienced? If so maybe I WILL have to spring for a copy.
Regards, Rick
Nothing however about temporal metrics -- saving that for a later day.
clark
The definitive statement on polarity written 20 years ago. It ignores simple impulse tests, it ignores many EIA standards in regards to microphones and headphones already in publication, it ignores the more recent AES 26 and other standards. It ignores new media such as laser discs, MP-3, and such, as one would expect from a relatively ancient and not well researched document. Now we are to await further details in an upcoming article, details of which can not be shared until publication. Clark's attempt to enlighten the general public shows his true colors: money before sharing of knowledge.
Such hubris
Stu
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