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Its an INSTANT improvement, bigger than swapping from the cheapest to the most expensive S.E. Output Transformer, ever made !!!
Am not sure of my final configuration, this is just an experimental first step, to VERIFY audible improvement. STAY TUNED !!
Jeff Medwin
Follow Ups:
Cheap and effective mass.
I have following your adventure )
I am about finished with my 825 cabs, did a lot of bracing and filled the horn flairs with sand.
Almost done sanding for final coat of paint.
I am excited to get them up and running soon with some 805B horns.
idlers and tubes....life is good
I heavily shellac interior, exterior I coat with this or other sim. Looks great works like tar filled. I also have a heavy plastered pair of 803 about will take pics soon post here.
It's been done before.
i've read that some people have used bondo (auto body filler) to beef up plastic horns, but that's a lot more expensive than concrete, if that works as suggested.
When I had my 511Bs I coated the outside (the entire bell and horn area) with Sealflex by Glenkote.
It's a mastic made for sealing heater ducts and goes on with a paint brush. It sets up almost like cork mixed with silicon.
That completely took the ringing out.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
I coated the outside of my 511's with the stuff used for car undercoating. You can get it at most auto supply stores. After about a month, the smell was gone. Just let them set in the garage while I built my new enclosures. Totally eliminated the ringing.
I had always meant to cover my 811s and 511s with the rope caulk since I didn't find much help from the Roofing caulk or cutting the vanes. Ya want to get rid of Altec ringing? Use the B&C DE-250 instead!
The only fault I could find when I built my 4 Pis was a "plasticky" coloration from the Eminence H-290s. The rope caulk tamed that, Wayne came out with the H290C true Catenary horn plus a subtle change to the crossover; I don't play with mis-matched parts anymore.
I'm just offering an alternate suggestion here and not saying my way is better, but an attractive sack such as a nice pillow case filled with fine sand can accomplish mass loading of horns quite effectively. For those of us with a wife, even a very understanding and accepting wife such as mine, I think you will find the WAF factor is better.
As an example of what I am talking about I offer this photo of my HT Tuba subs. There is fifty or sixty pounds of Home Depot play sand in a plastic garbage bag with that garbage bag placed inside the burgundy pillow case. The subs also sit on a sand box containing over 100 pounds of the same sand. More than 100 pounds of sand is also used to mass load the Oris horn and Fostex bullet tweeter rig.
I could live with that a lot easier than blocks.
Vinnie,That pillowcase just scratches the surface. Nice looking - I may copy that covering-type, however, on top of my tweeter horns.
The poster has likely not tried MULTIPLE iterations of weights, to see where it gets better and when it gets worse ( too much damping - takes the life away ).
"I" have listened to multiple iterations now, on almost all of the components in my new high-efficiency chain.
Vinnie, an all-concrete horn may be too damped, and in all these cases, one has to listen to iterations, to find the CORRECT amount of mass loading ( life-to-the-music versus over-damped ).
The differences I am hearing with controlled mass loading on ALTEC VOTTs are amazing to me.
Last night I experimented with mass loading my A7-800's re-done new crossover, with GREAT AUDIBLE SUCCESS. ( Surprisingly more dynamic range contrasting - WOW, noticeably better diction on voices, " S's and Th's " became beautiful to hear, ALSO, got better harmonic content, a richer-sounding overall presentation ). Engrossing mentally me.
I am now contemplating the best way to add additional mass to the crossover ( in iterations ), to determine the optimal amount of mass first, and then, how to implement it permanently to the crossover.
( At last, I have found one GOOD use for ALL those large heavy 10 HY chokes I removed from every tube amp I could get my hands on !! ) :-)
Also, VERY interesting to me, I was at a " critical point " on mass loading the flimsy A7 VOTT 5/8ths inch thick 825 cabinets, so I had to take equal weight AWAY from the enclosures, that I had added to the crossovers. Each red concrete slab is 16.7 pounds.
This is all SO readily audible with my new digital source and new Type 45 DC amp. Also Vinnie, I'm very-very encouraged with what I am hearing, and the results of careful mass loading everything in the chain is blowing ole' Low Mu away.
I think 99.9% of the audio world has overlooked this !!! All I can say is try it - and hear it for yourselves. Be ACTIVE, not pre-disposed to the status quo.
Jeff Medwin
Edits: 03/11/16
...' too much damping - takes the life away'...
No. It doesn't work that way. You aren't making guitar cabinets here. ANY sound added by the enclosure is WRONG. Its called HiFi for a reason. To have real hifi, you want only the information thats in the source. Whether you like the sound or not, anything added by the reproduction chain is a departure from high fidelity. Its a fact, and always has been.
You may have your beliefs, and I may have mine.
I did the damping incrementally BY EAR, and how it sounds to me is ALL that matters, versus theoretical approaches.
Damping applies not only to speakers, but to EVERY component in the audio chain. For example, my crossovers sound best to me at 12.5 to 14 pounds. My amp sounds best with SIX building bricks on it.
Too much damping KILLS the sound. There is a sweet spot, on all equipment. Determined by EAR.
Maybe it had to do simultaneously with mass loading and damping, but who cares WHY, all I care about is what sounds best !!!!!!
Have fun, I am.
Jeff Medwin
Typical dumbing down of HiFi that seems so popular these days in many circles. It should be a quest to eliminate all distortions, whatever the source. You may like it, but dont confuse it with real hi fidelity.
......tried MULTIPLE iterations of weights, to see where it gets better and when it gets worse ( too much damping - takes the life away ).
There's a formula to theoretically calculate this, but it's 'lost' on a damaged HDD. :^(
GM
Loud is Beautiful if it's Clean! As always though, the usual disclaimers apply to this post's contents.
Hello:
Need to stay in touch with practicality in regards to weight. Most I used was 1" MDF with oak veneer plus internal reinforcement. But once bought a pair of VOTT 825 cabs from a really old audiophile. He had an EV 30" driver for a sub in a large closet size Concrete enclosure!! Was driving the sub with a Marants tube 4B 40watts and the VOTTs with Marants model 9s. Picked up the speakers for $700 but was too late for the Marants.
Rafaro
Thanks GM,
But it was more reassuring to me to HEAR it !!!
Each concrete block was 16.7 pounds.
Regards, keep posting !!
Jeff Medwin
I have used lead shot which I buy at the local gun shop in 20Lb cloth sacks. It has the advantage of conforming to the surface that you are trying to damp and thus being slightly more efficient than the blocks which only contact at a few small points due to irregularities in the surfaces of the blocks and the horn. It can be more effective with less actual weight on the horn or cabinet.
If you're concerned about the material the shot is made from you can double bag with some thing non-porous.
Also, if you don't like the effect, you can use the shot to reload cartridges.
Damping spurious skull vibrations at the receiver.
We need to get Jeff to give THIS a try! : )
.
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
Glad your having fun.
If it doesn't work out you could open a garden supply place.
What kind of horns are they?
Aren't they?
Much more hefty and less ringy than similar sized 811b.
My question--what drivers are you running on the emailers?
Best,
Doug
802Ds, which were re-magged and re-diaphragmed with original ALTEC 16 Ohm units, all done by GPA.
I placed this post on the wrong thread so I deleted the text and photo. I will repost it on the proper thread.
Edits: 03/10/16
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