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Hi all, it's been a while since I visited here as my horn set up had been mostly sold. I now have the chance to buy back my 200hz tractrix horns I used with BMS4592 mid drivers, but this time I am thinking to use them with lowther dx45. I am currently using these in a back loaded horn and I find them much nicer to listen to than 8" lowthers.
My question is what advantage is there to run the dx45 in a front horn over a BLH. Also disadvantages would be welcome to ponder over.
Follow Ups:
If you are willing to experiment, you can try to build a foamcore tactrix horn for the DX45s and add some bass reinforcement in a Synergy-type arrangement. There is a thread in the multiway forum at DIY audio where a fellow is trying different widerange drivers in this style of speaker and has claimed that he has attained remarkable results. The widerange drivers seem to sound better than compression drivers. If the experiment works well, then you could build a more permanent set of speakers out of wood.
Retsel
I can't speak to the DX45 driver but I have experience with Lowther/AER drivers in BLH and FLH. I found the best implementation of these drivers was the FL Oris horn. It improved dynamics significantly over the BLH I used (Medallion) although the Oris requires a separate mid bass. Fast forward a few years where I now use JBL 2441 in Bruce's salad bowls and a GPA 515 woofer in a FLH for mid bass. Forget about any of these designs playing real bass. I used 7 ft tall tapped horns with Definimax woofers for real bass! So this system is large and needs a larger room to shine.
Fast forward again....I'm currently putting together a Lowther OB project fashioned after Nelson Pass for something smaller and more intimate. I always liked the Lowther sound for small scale music, especially the female voice.
Jim
I add my seal of agreement to Jim D's post which I take as a compliment to more modern and mathematically designed front loaded horns such as the Oris 150 or Dr. Edgars salad bowls.I do have a dog in this fight. I have been using Oris 150s driven by AER-MD3 cones as a very wide range (200 Hz - 8k Hz) foundation for a three way fully horn loaded, DSP adjusted, triamplified system I cobbled together. The system sounds good,sweet and musical, and measures quite respectably..
Edits: 11/24/15
The KEY may be that the DSP allows a LOT of adjustment.
Do you use one of the 'MINI' products?
The over achievers even figure out FIR filters…..
Too much is never enough
I use a DEQX HDP-3. Judging by what a monumental chore it is to measure and calibrate the speakers and to do the same for the room I don't think it could in any way be considered mini. After programming the DEQX (and reprogramming it following any changes in the room or the system) the results are very gratifying to me. Some folks claim to hear all sorts of digital nasties with DSP. I don't. What I do hear is very smooth cohesive response and beautiful music.
One caveat is that I am getting old, and I can no longer claim my hearing is good enough to deny that some sort of digital nasties do not exist. Even if they did exist I firmly believe that what a good DSP corrects more than makes up for anything it might diminish.
Don,
I am in full agreement.
Your approach is an excellent one.
there are two reasons I want to try the lowthers, firstly the BMS 4592 mid drivers are 118db and no matter what bass drivers I use I will probably need to bi-amp to get a balance. The second reason is the BMS is 200Hz-9000Hz so I would need a tweeter and I want to try just a two way this time around.
hi
as far as i remember azzolina audio used a 5" lowrher in a front horn .
http://www.azzolinaaudio.com/page3/page5/page5.html
Very oris swing, did some searching and even on their website no mention of drivers but another search found an owner with dx4. With space for such speakers I would like something similar.
Initially I used Lowther PM4s, or PM4As as some term them, to drive my Oris 150 horns. There was much to love about them, but I was never completely sold on them.
In an attempt to improve my horn speakers I sold the Lowthers and replaced them with AER MD3s. It was only then that I realized that after decades of building and buying different speakers, boxes, Magnepans, electrostatics, d'Appolito towers with the best Dynaudio drivers, etc., etc. I had finally hit upon a speaker system that I might enjoy for the remainder of my life.
The main issue is simply frequency response. Back horns can (if designed carefully) boost the bass (for a BSC effect), where most small high-efficiency drivers are deficient. Front horns will boost the midrange, which equalizes those drivers with excessive high frequency output - which is most whizzer-coned 6"-8" fullrange drivers.
If you are going to use speaker technology from the mid-20th century, then using the tone-control technology of the same period can actually make sense. It's cheaper and more flexible than changing cabinets/horns!
I recognize there are many other meaningful differences, but I just wanted to point out the elephant in the room.
Few seem to realise or understand that Lowthers were Intended for Front horns.
Go for it.
As many questions as answers, I'm afraid !
A front loaded horn stomps all over a BLH because of the timing clues.
A BLH adds in "after the fact" as opposed to a FLH where it all happens at once.
What size throat in your 200Hz horns ?
What are you using for bass, as it will be required to reach 300Hz ?
"A front loaded horn stomps all over a BLH because of the timing clues.
A BLH adds in "after the fact" as opposed to a FLH where it all happens at once. "
Never a Truer statement ! I love how FLH's portray the dynamic parts of music.
If I had space and money I'd have an all FHL 2 or 3way system. For now
I can only get so close to that type system ! But I'm having fun trying.
Willie
"A front loaded horn stomps all over a BLH because of the timing clues.
A BLH adds in "after the fact" as opposed to a FLH where it all happens at once. "
Never a Truer statement ! I love how FLH's portray the dynamic parts of music.
If I had space and money I have a all FHL 2 or 3way system. For now
I can only get so close to that type system ! But having fun trying.
Willie
It seems to me that a Klipsch LaScala would qualify as a FHL two-way and a K-horn as a three-way FHL speaker. These are readily available on the used market.
I am curious whether you own/owned either of these, have heard them, and what your reaction to them would be.
Thanks,
George
Hi George
Yes I've heard K-horns on several occasion. A friend here in St. Louis
has a couple of pairs of K-horns.
JMHO K-horns seem to lack that dynamic effect that a non-folded LF front horn has.
Sorry a K-Horn doesn't do it for me,
I plan to look into a LF horn made by Auto-Tech they make a 250Hz horn
for an 8" driver..... This could do the trick with my 8" Field Coil speakers.
Any Opinions ??
Willie
I'm guessing you know this but the LaScala is in fact a 3-way horn using the same drivers (and horn lens) as the Khorn. It can be successfully taken to a 2-way design and some have done that but as designed, it's a 3-way.
Yes, thank you for the clarification, I did know the LaScala was a full three way horn loaded design. I think I got it confused with Cornwalls or Altec Model 19s with a ported woofer section.
I owned a pair of Cornwalls for quite awhile and enjoyed them a lot. I also had a pair of K-horns for a few years and did much experimentation with mods on them, which was great fun. That's partly why I enjoy this forum so much even though I now listen to Quads and B&W direct radiators that are not very efficient!
Cheers,
George
That's the thing, throat is 2" flanged but I was wondering if I can cut it at 4" and put a square flange to make a box for the lowther, or is the flare then incorrect for a cone driver. As for bass I was thinking to try the new ob eminence 15" a better version of the alpha 15A. I had very tuneful bass but only down to 50hz but clean to 350hz by bracing the drivers frame. The new drivers are made by eminence for pure audio projects.
Edits: 11/21/15
I would not cut the horn. Check ebay and find a nice pair of JBL 2441 compression drivers ( ala Dr.Bruce Edgar ) which always sound good. For the treble, get a pair of Fostex horn tweeters and use a simple 1uf cap for the crossover. You can use the 2441 down to 400hz. for home use. The best open baffle woofers are from AE --use a pair of the 15" drivers per channel but Eminence drivers will also work.
I can also buy back the BMS 4592mid drivers that IMO beat the those old Jbl drivers. But the point is not to go back to where I've been before but use the DX45 in the best way possible. Martin Seddon of Azurahorn suggested a front horn, he said he had looked into it and that it would work very well. Right now they are in some old wharfedale boxes that I modified into a kind of bass reflex terminating into a horn mouth, nothing calculated just cut and shut for a Fostex FE126. I opened up the driver hole to suit the lowther and of course they are not flat I can see the potential. They are far better in the midrange than the 8" lowthers I have had, pm6c and ex3.
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