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My luthier has two each of the following OEM Altec components in good condition:
802D 16 Ohm compression driver, large horn
416A 16 Ohm
CrossoverHe considers building enclosure for music in the shop and playback for his recordings of local musicians. Builder is master craftsman with unlimited skills.
Proposed application:
Room 43 x 43 x 9' (minus 2000cf paint booth) = 14,700cf). Normal acoustic music reproduction, maximum audience 20. No video, no live music reinforcement, no pro sound application.Which enclosure provides maximum audio performance for above application?
What is ideal enclosure if sole criteria is maximum resale value, no other criteria? We can pack and ship worldwide.
Please post link if custom aftermarket crossover exists, considered upgrade from proper functioning OEM. If no such crossover exists, I have access to renown multiple award winning world class crossover designer. I presume his crossover would outperforming OEM. Beyond serving our own needs, is there interest in such custom crossover?
Edits: 03/04/15 03/05/15 03/05/15 03/06/15Follow Ups:
I gotta bring fasteners to tie the mid bass together. Altec page lists everything except fastener hole diameter.
Anyone know hole diameter or machine screw size?
IIRC, the fasteners that Altec used to hold the 416A's in place were 1/4-20 Cheese Head machine screws. There would have been T-nuts in the cabinets instead of conventional hex nuts and washers.
If you want to get super obsessive about originality, I have a box of original Altec nuts and hardware salvaged from years of hunting (many years ago). E-mail me if you're interested. (Not a blanket invitation to the world at large, BTW, I don't have that many available, sorry)
Thank you gentlemen, for your kind and thoughtful replies.Some is as I presumed, but it's nice to see it confirmed rather than going on a hunch. I appreciate all the specific mention of cabinets models.
If impedance sweeps look very good, might posting such graphs add to resale value for the drivers? How much?
Edits: 03/05/15
For a room that size, and used as you intend, the Altec 825 cabinet would probably be most suitable (with 'wings' would be even better). Depending on the horns and crossovers you have, you would then have A-7 or A-7-500 'Voice of the Theater' speakers. They're not small, but you'll have room for them. They're not very useful for near-field listening, but I'm guessing you wouldn't be doing that either. They should excel at 'normal acoustic music reproduction'. Cabinet plans for the 825's should be available online. Not too difficult for an experienced woodworker.
For resale value, I'd have to agree with others that you'd likely not recoup the costs of building the cabinets (material, maybe, but not labor). A possible exception might be if you build something like a classic cabinet (suggestions below) with a very high quality furniture finish, and get lucky enough to find someone who's willing to pay for it. Even at that, depending on where your buyer is, the shipping costs could kill the deal. If you just want to sell them, sell the components (in pairs, please). Easier to sell, easier to ship. If you want to listen first, sell later, I guess I'd recommend you not put too much love into the cabinets.
Besides the 825 style Altec cabinet, other vintage Altec contenders are the Altec 612 style (with the horn+crossover mounted externally), the Altec model 19 (depending on which horn you have--an H-811 will fit, an H-511 not so much). The Onken cabinets are also well regarded for 416's.
While I won't say there's no room for improvement, the original Altec crossovers are pretty good. A good place to start, and (again depending on which ones you have) they'll probably hold their value better than any home built units will.
What is estimated lead time to find two OEM cabinets for this midbass and horn? Builder could recondition cabinets needing such.
Suppose we compare two pairs of otherwise identical complete vintage Altec speaker systems, all parts OEM including enclosure, all functioning well:
(A) Enclosures reconditioned by world class award winning luthier, period finish, close to new appearance or possibly better
(B) Enclosures not reconditioned, moderate condition or better
How do you compare resale value A vs. B?
Are period decals/badges available?
Finding OEM cabinets for these is not as easy at it used to be. In the 1980's and 90's, I was finding them everywhere I looked. Now they're a little more scarce.
Cabinets that are completely original, never refinished in any way, and in top cosmetic condition will always be worth the most, and those from the 1950's + 60's (or earlier) are more valued than the later ones. Refinished originals, even if done to a very high standard, won't fetch as much from most collectors.
Depending on which cabinet style you choose, there are vendors on the big auction site that have reproduction decals and graphics available. I have actually resorted to making my own for some of my projects. It's not that difficult if you have any sort of graphics or photo editing software on your computer. I've used PhotoShop. When I have the files ready, I go to a local printer to have them done.
Pre-war boxer (flat twin) BMW motorcycles were "air-heads." "Oil heads" arrived in the early 90s, then liquid cooled boxers finally arrived a couple years ago.
Through the early-mid 80s, the old vintage air heads were easily found. Not every day, but soon enough. They were still daily drivers, and a co-worker commuted on his 70s R80. Prices ranged from $800 to $1500 for nicer sample.
They're over $10k now in decent condition, and generally rare. Whoduthunk? 80s/90s Porsche 911s that were high teens-low 20s not many years ago are $50k+ now.
Funny you mention BMW's. I rode an early R100RS all over the place for years. Great bike. Loved it. Off topic, of course, but you brought it up :-)
I can't help but see analogies between vintage audio and motor vehicles. Remember how easy it was to pick up a used R__ air head? They are worth 4-6x what they used to sell for. It's crazy.
Tell me about it. I was into vintage air-cooled VW's for quite a while back in the day. Bought a totally original, low miles 1967 Westfalia camper once for $1200, and sold it to a collector for $10k a year later. Thought I'd done great. The very same camper recently sold for over $100k. Don't even ask what my old 1947 split-window beetle is worth now. Wish I'd held onto that one a bit longer, too.
If you're not planning on keeping them, you would probably be better off putting the components on Ebay.
The cost of a properly built cabinet would be more than you could realistically recoup. A period correct box for the 416 would be in the 9cuFt range. As Don mentioned, Onkens are popular and I belive you could use a model 19 style cabinet as well, with some modifications. A5 or A7 cabinets would also be a possibility.
What is the horn that you have?
Thanks. I suspected exactly what you mention, he might not recoup cost for cabinet labor and materials. I suspect more people would rather build their own cabinets than pay for shipping, which costs a small fortune.
Ryan suggested cabinets to use the drivers while they appreciate in value. Any thoughts on this appreciated.
I went to pick them up last night but need fasteners to couple the mid bass for safe movement. Later I'll post image of the horn unless model is marked on them.
Last night I confirmed CD and mid bass both 16 Ohm.
All good advice.... I go for an 825 cab use the 802d in the likely 811 horn and add a supertweeter since that comp driver does not really go much above 10KHz. Then add a subwoofer in the reflex cab below the 150-160 Hz MR horn. Just seal the connection between the horn and bass reflex cabinet and place an 15-18" driver in a bass reflex enclosure or an 10-12" driver in a tapped horn in there. You need to biamp the sub and adjust volumes. But now you have a 20-20Khz speaker. I did this once and it blew away the Wilson Wham which was more than a 100K dollar speaker system!
PS. Stiffen up reinforce the bottom of the 825 cab and putty up the 811 horn to reduce ringing
luck
Rafaro
Wow, now you're cooking with gas! That sounds more than attractive! Would love to have heard that rig.At a recent show (2015 CES IIRC) Wilson showed coming WHAM replacement to journalists (images only of draped/hidden speaker because prototype status only).
Wilson already has $200k/pr model. Can't remember projected price of the new flagship, but your "$100k" number pales, estimate $500k/pr.
Dave and I used to be neighbors in Novato, CA, where our daughters attended school together. I remember bumping in to Dave at the local video rental store. Anyone remember those? Funny that Dave moved to Utah years ago (Mormon status I suppose), now we're still "neighbors" (I'm 90 minutes NE of Wilson's shop).
I helped Dave set up at CES back in the day at the old Riviera Hotel. Dave signed and gave me one of the albums he recorded and produced. IIRC Dave's mastering deck was Ampex half track modified by John Curl, whose offices were in the VMPS Plant where I worked in "beautiful" San Pablo by the SF Bay.
Only persons familiar with San Pablo caught the sarcasm in "beautiful" above. I left the VMPS Plant on San Pablo Ave one night a little late. It was dark. I dropped something in the car, parked with the car idling to pick it up, looked up, and saw a local running toward me full speed like a lion running toward a wounded gazelle. Let's just say I didn't roll down my window and say, "Good evening, may I help you?" but rather stepped on the gas and laid a nice strip of rubber and smoke.
My beat around town car at that time was a red '78 Ford Fairmont wagon with 302ci V8. The V8 made only 140hp, but the car was stripped with no accessories except AC, weighed only about 2800 lbs, had a big fat torque curve, RWD, and was a kick to toss around. Even the brakes worked pretty well. The Mustang shared the Fairmont platform. I rang its neck daily and it never failed. Accord drivers thought it was just another slug Fairmont 4cyl or 6cyl and soon learned otherwise (Accords of that era make a little less HP but about half the torque). Still miss that old car. The same motor the next year '79 was emission strangled and ran like crap, but carburetion in the '78 302ci was like injection is was so clean. Got 20mpg city/freeway.
Please return to your audio channel!
Edits: 03/06/15 03/06/15
Thanks Don!I visited the shop yesterday while Ryan apparently taught a guitar building class. Wow, the main room is bigger than I thought, 43' x about 43 with 9' ceiling, minus paint booth = total net 14,700cf. OP edited. Sorry, can not edit subject because member quoted this post, alerting me to error.
Edits: 03/06/15
1470 sf maybe?
Brain fart, sorry. 14,700cf. Will edit.
Its been almost two days now and you have not received a response to your questions. I'll provide some feedback based on my experience:
Which enclosure provides maximum audio performance for above application?
The onken enclosure has been frequently referred to as the best enclosure for the Altec 416a. The cabinet plans can be found with Google.
What is ideal enclosure if sole criteria is maximum resale value, no other criteria? We can pack and ship worldwide.
For the best resale value these Altec drivers in an original Altec cabinet should bring the highest resale value.
Please post link if custom aftermarket crossover exists, considered upgrade from proper functioning OEM.
Based on my research to date there is no optimum custom crossover for those specific drivers. GPA does offer the "Altec Lansing GPA N1200-8A Model 19 Crossover" but the drivers are not identical (8 ohm vs 16 ohm & other differences). Look at http://www.ebay.ca/itm/331051569932
Best of luck with your project!
DonM
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