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If you get the chance to hear the LM 755EX from LM Audio make the effort. It is a single driver system using a remake of the famous Western Electric 755A speaker. It comes with a field coil power supply - the LM Audio PR-3 uses 300B's to power the magnets.
I have had three listening sessions with them and I am very impressed with them and by the way the cabinets are just beautiful. These speakers would cost at least $25,000 to $35,000 if they were made in the US or Europe in stead of being under $10,000 including the 300B power supplies.
Beatnik's stuff http://web.me.com/jnr1/Site/Beatniks_Pictures.html
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I hope to hear them sometime soon. Did you find they lacked extension at all?
big j.
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
Yes, and if frequency extreams are a high priority than these and many great speakers are not for you. By the way this is why there are so many speakers out there, we have people wit such diverse priorities in what they like.
Beatnik's stuff http://web.me.com/jnr1/Site/Beatniks_Pictures.html
I didn't notice any shortcomings in the low frequencies but we were listening to records I was unfamiliar with and in a room I'd not been in before.The high frequencies seemed a bit rolled-off but I felt they still sounded very good.
Sounds like they are still worth hearing.
Somehow, I have to get to hear a 22A/555W, 597A, 4151A system here in NZ. I need to hatch a plan!
big j.
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
I am sure they are very nice, but I think at 10K, I will just keep hoping to stumble on a pair of AR 1's in a thrift store.
Dave
There aren't allot of Don Better's in the world. But, good retailers like Don, can conduct their business via internet and out of their showrooms.
The fact is, Don sells expensive stuff with tight distribution controls. EMT, Shindo, LM Audio are all controlled by Tone Imports. Which ads costs to the retail price. The manufacturers obviously see the benefit of this system versus a pure internet direct model. They are probably right. It takes knowledgeable people with certain sensibilities to the high end customer to sell and promote this kind of gear. The kind of customer that doesn't hang out here.
I'm hoping there will be a trickle down benefit to the small manufacturer who can get some traction from the interest generated by the LM Audio and EMT's of the world. I love gear of this ilk with "old world" quality and sound. My problem is that I like to experiment and change things out and buying full price retail is just not going to work for me. For the price of a mid priced Shindo preamp, I can go under the radar and put together a really good sounding system.
$10,000 seams like a reasonable price for this product but I also suspect the worst. I'm smelling "introductory" pricing to get the brand some momentum... and then price increases will come. To say it's worth $25 or $35,000 is absurd and makes me wonder about the motivation behind the post.
it might cost that. I own a pair of $15,000 speakers that skips the importer and the retailer. I don't know what they would cost with those two steps added, but I guess twice as much would be a minimum. I have loved Shindo preamps, and own the Giscours, but I am also partial to Lowther speakers. I just thought the LM 55s were a great buy for around $9,000.
It is also a very specialized product with this 300B power supplies for the field coils that allow those who like such things the possibilities of tube rolling.
All I was trying to do was share an exciting new product with those who might be interested.
Beatnik's stuff http://web.me.com/jnr1/Site/Beatniks_Pictures.html
'I own a pair of $15,000 speakers that skips the importer and the retailer. I don't know what they would cost with those two steps added, but I guess twice as much would be a minimum.'
You probably won't go for this pair of speakers if the price was at full retail price after the importer/retailer add their profit margin. If there is no middleman, the manufacturer can sell more speakers at $15000 and at least stay in the business longer.
Thank-you Jack and I apologize that a few of us managed to steer the topic in a completely different direction
In the long run, the manufacturers will find a way to do away with the middleman and sell the products directly to the public. This is the only way to ensure its long term survival. This is the direction that all manufacturers will follow in the near future.
Luckily the local audiophile market is huge. I mean Mainland China. I would like to see LM Audio to stay. From what they are offering now, it looks like the top brass from LMA knows the Hi-End Ultra-Fi market very well. Making replicas are easy. The sound tuning part is not easy to do. I never audit any LM Audio gear yet but from most I heard in the net. Look like they got it right.
Well said Lokie! Oddly enough I have a Shindo amp.linestage and I.C.'s all of which I purchased used from private owners.At one point,I suspected that I had an issue with my Montille (which turned out not to be the case).Jonathan Halpern from Tone Imports responded to my questions quickly and thoroughly even though I didn't purchase these pieces from one of his dealers.That type of professionalism is tough to put a price on. Also,I must mention that I've only been to Don Betters place once and I haven't purchased a single thing from him yet ( I was hesitant about the appointment only arrangement and I suspected I was a bit out of my league).As it turns out,I wish I'd made the appointement several years earlier Aw heck,now I'm rambling
We need to dump the 'Middleman' and buy directly from the manufacturer. I look at its website and there is nothing there. No useful info. He is doing nothing besides increase the price of the item for 100%. Buying directly from the manufacturer is the only way to keep this hobby affordable. This is the future of Hi-End audio.
Edits: 03/27/12
I disagree with you also, especially with respect to better gear that is not made in the US. Jonathan Halpern has brought us Shindo and Leben (among others) and now brings us LM Audio a lower cost alternative. Jonathan finds these manufacturers and introduces their goods to the US. The fact is that I trust his ears and I am sure that the LM Audio stuff is going to be great. He also stands behind his products. I have spoke to him several times and had many email exchanges ( I had a Monbrison that I kick myself for selling). He has also been helpful and responded to my inquiries in a totally professional way. He also loves music --- not all distributors do.
My 2 cents.
Oddly enough,I'm considering a Monbrison to replace my Aurieges as I'm in the process of putting together a Garrard 401.I second your recommendation of Jonathan Halpern
It is tragic that Shindo's gears came to the North America Market this late in the game. When I first became an audiophile, I heard about Shindo and its legendary gears since 1989. The one particular gear that got my attention were the WE300B SET mono-blocks. They were expensive back then. I'm not sure why no one in North America knew or heard about this legendary brand until recently.
Edits: 03/30/12
While 9 years ago might be recent as compared to 1989... I want exactly call it a recent arrival.
I heard about Shindo in 1989 but it is available in the local market way earlier than that. You are slow. :)
I doubt if either the importer(Tone Imports) or the retailer is marking this companys products up 100%.If I remember correctly,the LM speakers retail for $8,995.00 which I admit is a lot of $.On the other hand ,these are pretty big and presumably heavy loudspeakers and they include a pr of mono 300 B amps to drive the field coils so shipping from China would be very expensive. In addition,there would not be a traditional dealer at which you could hear them to say nothing of all the other benefits a good dealer offers. To the best of my knowledge Don Better audio is the only high-end retailer in this part of Ohio.His showrooms are in his home and he has a wide variety of gear that can be demo'd. He is also very knowledgeable and helpful.I do purchase some of my gear used but I plan to do my part to support retailers such as Don whenever possible.
I hope that in this case, a fair price for LM Audio items can be found and maintained (inflation notwithstanding).
I think these items, being replicas of some WE items have an important part to play in maintaining the sonic cultural heritage we all now share (through the history of film and sound) and that our hobby's sustainability is at least partially established by attracting and keeping a sizeable audience for these items - ie buyers.
I don't think $9K is too expensive *for these items and their anticipated ability*. There are certainly cheaper options (admittedly, not many field-coil drivers). But for those of us who set as much stock by a system's ability to communicate the inherent nature of a performance as well as just the tunes - and have come to love field-coils as a consequence - modern opportunities are few and far between. Hopefully prices won't balloon.
big j.
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
The only way for this wonderful hobby to survive is to keep the price of the related gears low. If we can buy directly from the manufacturer, we instantly cut the price of the 100%. Personally I don't trust any inputs from the retailers. All their advices are to steer you to buy the products they represent. That's all. This is seif-interest theory at its best.
The major reason that this hobby is dieing is the extremely high price of the audio gears. If there is no middleman, then the gears cut 100% of the price. Lower price mean more sales and the survivability of the manufacturer looks brighter.
In this internet age, a new Hi-End audio business model has to emerge or this hobby will be gone in the next few years. I personally now buy all my CDs/LPs and all my audio gears in the net. I think it can be done.
The only way to keep this hobby going is to add value. Price is less critical, though still pursuant to success. You can't give MiniDisc players away and for good reason.
It's because folk don't perceive value in horns and tubes that they settle for ipods and non-descript transducers. Or, worse still, some other form of diversion like home theatre (tongue-in-cheek).
My way of sustaining interest in the hobby has been to shift my main focus from great sound (nice as it is to have) to a focus on performances, musicianship and so on. Great gear brings this out. Indifferent stuff doesn't. Otherwise, I would sell the whole lot and take the family on an extra holiday. And, to keep me sharp, that is always an option.
big j.
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
cids- I respectfully disagree.I don't think there is any substitute for a dealer you've established a relationship with that will allow you to listen to a product in his store and possibly allow you to demo it in your own home.I also don't think it's necessarily true that all dealers recommend only the products they sell and a good dealer will stand behind his products in the event of a problem.30 plus years-ago I worked part-time for several years at a now defunct hi-fi store.Markup on speakers was typically 35-40% and roughly 30-35% on electronics.That may sound like alot until you factor in shipping,and the dealers overhead including sales staff and a tech to repair gear.I like getting a "deal"every bit as much as the next guy and with 2 years to go before I retire,it's more appealing than ever.That said,I believe an honest and competent dealer is absolutely to be recommended.
I heard them at Don Better audio and was very impressed.They had a big,powerful sound.I also briefly heard the LM 300b integrated on the LM 55's followed by the Shindo Monbrison.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now that US and Euro distributors have discovered that LM audio gear is turning out to be pretty good sounding and 'reasonably' priced (relatively), the cost will begin to skyrocket and put these WE tributes out of the reach of music-lovers. I give it a year before dealer prices climb 50% over the prices I have been quoted direct (no dealers here - yet). - [edit] - but I hope they stay at or near their present values - [end edit].The fact that you quote 25k to 35k for US/Euro equivalents is all too believable and pretty damn sad. How are we going to refresh our hobby with new blood while tendering silly 'trophy prices' like that?
big j.
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
Edits: 03/25/12
How about this trophy piece?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/320867593038?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
They look nice enough. Will probably fetch, what, 7K? (Went for just under 6. Does that qualify as a bargain these days? ;^)Not field-coil though, and I while I understand that this series of 75x drivers weren't field-coil to begin with, there's most likely a significant difference in SQ between them and LM's implementation - which, incidentally, look nicely made.
Peace be with us all.
big j.
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
Edits: 03/25/12
"Not field-coil though, and I while I understand that this series of 75x drivers weren't field-coil to begin with, there's most likely a significant difference in SQ between them and LM's implementation - which, incidentally, look nicely made."
Is field coil superiority a given? I don't know. I would like to hear from somebody that really knows what the difference is and what specifically is "better": dynamics? tone? efficiency? bigness?
I've noticed Shindo is converting old drivers (and possibly new production??) to FC as well. Probably a tricky thing to get right but would like to know what exactly FC brings to the table.
Where I'm going with this... Sure would be cool if someone would experiment with the current production cheaper drivers (like a B&C) and convert to FC.
Dave is doing some experiments with Lowther drivers, taking them into field-coil territory.
I used to run Fertin field-coils, though I did not have Fertin permanent magnets to compare them with. Before that, I was running AER drivers in Hedlund horns. There's is an insight and authority about a field-coil driver which conveys a sense of transparency over and above what I had come to expect at that time. For this reason alone I can understand why LM Audio would seek to augment the 755 in this respect. It's also why I am interested in their whole field-coil offering as, generally speaking, field-coil prices in the West are usually silly money.
big j.
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
"These speakers would cost at least $25,000 to $35,000 if they were made in the US"
That's funny. A cabinet maker could easily make these for $3,000 and buy the real WE 755A for $6,400.
http://www.hifitown.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=29825
"These speakers would cost at least $25,000 to $35,000 if they were made in the US"
I think the other fellow is talking about the retail price here if manufactured in the US.
could build those beautiful cabinets for that. I was also talking about the price if built by a high end audiophile company.
Beatnik's stuff http://web.me.com/jnr1/Site/Beatniks_Pictures.html
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