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... what modern woofer should I look at? I'd love to give the faital speakers a try (well ... being myself italian).
tks
gluca
Follow Ups:
Have you considered getting a used pair of Peavey FH-1's? They are not much larger and go much lower and are better built and cost a fraction. The Peavey FH-1 is a better designed horn than a La Scalla as the dog house is three sided (not counting the top and bottom) This is a better way to build the dog house and maintain constant horn expansion. Hope this is of interest. Best regards Moray James.
moray james
I can vouch for the Crites woofers. I built a set of LS clones & originally had the stamped frame model, then upgraded to the cast frame woofer & they are very good. You need to stick with the driver designed for this cabinet, as it works best & also matches best with the crossover....I'm using ALK crossovers specifically designed for the LS.
congrats, they look gorgeous.
Are you building a Lascala cabinet from scratch or re-building an existing one? I ask because the Crites cast frame woofer (cw1526) is slightly larger in diameter than the stamped version, and installing the cast version into a existing cabinet would require additional surgery to get a good fit.
........I was a vegetarian for 15 minutes... until the main course.
... I believe I will stick to the original plan (minus the horn/tweeter as I will use a Iwata I have). two ways + sub if I'll need that.
Any pic around about those CW1526 by BC? Price looks really great.
So you are just replacing the woofer section in your current setup or more of the total la scala?
----------------
"When Khruschev said "we will bury you" I don't think he meant with surplus parts." zacster
no I am keeping my TADs and horns; i am just building a new system for my parents place (where I go very often and it is the place I call home)
Good to hear. Thought your iwatas were sexy. Of course I have similar coming.
Here ya are - CW1526C woofers.
........I was a vegetarian for 15 minutes... until the main course.
I have the Crites 15 woofer in a set of Cornscala. I love the sound. I am in the middle of a new set of speakers and I am going to use two 15 inch Fatial speakers in each speaker. It will be interesting to compare!
Don Walker
Use the one that gives the best results when modeled in HornResp or another program using the LaScala parameters. Be sure to look not only at the SPL chart results but also Maximum SPL, which is displacement limited in the low end.
thanks all for the many replies (I was and I am not very familiar with la scalas). I'll look onto those Crites clones and I also found a pair of links to some mods discussed of the klipsch forum
gianluca
I recently purchased a pair of k-33 clones from Bob Crites - the cw 1526. These are the cast frame version (better). There is a stamped frame version as well for slightly less money. To call these a clone is actually wrong as they are actually better than the original. $295 per pair shipping included.
........I was a vegetarian for 15 minutes... until the main course.
"These are the cast frame version (better)."
Better how?
Note that PWK himself thought little of cast frames.
PWK thought little of anything that cost more $$$ even if it was slightly better. He would routinely change drivers, crossover parts, etc...without fanfare to keep the product moving out the door.
........I was a vegetarian for 15 minutes... until the main course.
"PWK thought little of anything that cost more $$$ even if it was slightly better. He would routinely change drivers, crossover parts, etc...without fanfare to keep the product moving out the door."
Yeah, I know all that. But the question I asked was how is the cast Crites woofer better than the stamped one. I wonder if it's simply a matter of perception especially given the non rigorous use of the woofer.
Well when they first arrived we put them into a friends V1 Cornwalls.
I thought they played somewhat deeper with "tauter" bass. My friend was gaga for them, and seemed to think they had somehow transformed his old speakers (he bought a pair). Also, there are many on the Klipsch forum that believe the same after a/b'ing them. There are certainly some physical differences between the cast snd stamped baskets that could read like a Viagra ad - Bigger, Stiffer, Thicker, Heavier. I talked to Bob Crites and he said they do play a few hz lower.
........I was a vegetarian for 15 minutes... until the main course.
Tom,
The cast woofer plays a little deeper & has more control, even though the actual specs are the same. I could never get a definitive reason from Crites why this is so, but the proof is in the hearing & not in the specs, if you get my drift.
Cheers,
John
PWK was a tightwad (I admired this in him).The cast frame Crites driver has specs similar to a much older version of the K33 (reputed to be better), contact BEC for details.
Edits: 03/17/12
Why modern woofer ? So you can pump 300W in them? When they start making 15" woofers with 18-19 Hz (instead of 35 and up) Fs / 97-98db I might get interested but for now get vintage altec or JBL and forget of getting Bass from La Scala. It is a midbass horn ,( as well as Klipschorn) and as such should be treated.
Eighteensound is italian (just like my grand parents) and has wonderful woofers!
No need to copy a La Scala, check out their own designs...
BTW you could gat a pair of 1480 NSD and get rid of those TAD! ijijijii
Jorge
I love those tad's ;-)
Great!
We use a number of the Faital drivers and they work well. HOWEVER our cabinets were designed with those drivers in mind.
Changing to a different driver (even on that is "better) is usually not a good idea-especially on horn cabinets.
"Better" means different. And different means that something is going to be different than the origional-which may or may not be "better". Depending on the crossover design (and other issues) you could end up with a 'worse" sound-depending on the particular interactions between drivers that you end up with.
I have no problem recommending Faital-but I would go with something that is very close to the origional drivers-if you are looking for the same sound.
If you aren't, then FIRST you need to define exactly what you are looking for-THEN search out a possible solution.
A particular driver manufacturer would be WAY down on my list of things to look at now.
I would also plan to build La Scala but I would like to find the measures of La Scala II
what project you wish to follow?
anche io avrei intenzione di costruire La Scala ma vorrei trovare le misure della La Scala II
tu quale progetto intendi seguire?
I build bass cabs, and the Faital Pro are some of the best I have heard, way over Emmenince even though I a from USA (though I have an Italian girlfriend who is in Napoli...not here damn!!!)
The 15PR400 is an awesome woofer with better mids than almost any other 15" (because of it's light cone...hehe and the only competition is from the B & C group) It has a Lower Fs, lower Qts, and lower Vas than the K-33 of Klipsch La Scala, so better deeper bass in a smaller box or deeper bass in same box
http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/p/33207/286987.aspx#286987
look at Poster 'Marvel' there (down in forum) he has the more or less correct numbers.
have a look here lots of variations
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/176729-klipsch-horn-woofer-designs.html
It all depends how close you want the clone, and frankly you could do much better than a clone actually...
Have Fun Gluca, and the best of Luck
Caio,
-3db
Old K33E specs:
Name: 15162
Type: Standard one-way driver
Company: Eminence Speaker LLC
Comment: K33E
No. of Drivers = 1
Fs = 34.46 Hz
Qms = 7.39
Vas = 301.7 liters
Cms = 0.268 mm/N
Mms = 79.47 g
Rms = 2.328 kg/s
Xmax = 8.2 mm
Xmech = 12.3 mm
P-Dia = 336.6 mm
Sd = 889.6 sq.cm
P-Vd = 0.729 liters
Qes = 0.41
Re = 3.39 ohms
Le = 0.96 mH
Z = 4 ohms
BL = 11.93 Tm
Pe = 150 watts
Qts = 0.388
no = 2.903 %
1-W SPL = 96.78 dB
2.83-V SPL = 100.5 dB
Those driver specs do not EVEN rival older EV drivers {FS 25} for the Khorn
The Mind has No Firewall~ U.S. Army War College.
FS by itself is meaningless.
According the Leach and Keele, it is possible for a driver with a 100hz Fs to go to 10hz in the appropriate horn.
Other parameters are involved.
You are getting off track.
Stephens made THAT driver FOR the Khorn
For
A
sound
Reason.
The Mind has No Firewall~ U.S. Army War College.
It's probably best to use woofers that are originals or copies of them. A fella named Crites sells proper aftermarket woofers for Klipsch speakers, I assume they're made by Eminence, they made the originals which Klipsch calls K-33s.
Crites has a website and has an excellent reputation among Klipsch modders.
Stephens tru-sonic made an upgrade 15" driver that allowed the Khorn cabinet to be flat from 30hz on up instead of 35
they are VERY rare.
The Mind has No Firewall~ U.S. Army War College.
"Stephens tru-sonic made an upgrade 15" driver that allowed the Khorn cabinet to be flat from 30hz on up instead of 35"The rear chamber is resonated at 35hz, otherwise it rolls off below 47hz (the base taper rate of the horn).
The Stephens may have resonated at a different frequency, but it would have had a gap between 50hz and whatever (lower) frequency it was resonated at.
PWK changed the enclosed rear volume of the basic design, and the throat, sometime in the late 50s.
Edits: 03/17/12
So, you are saying this driver SPECIFICALLY designed {by Stephens} for the Khorn circa 50-55 as an upgrade driver delivered bogus performance?
Perhaps, but IF I run across one, I will still buy it.
The Mind has No Firewall~ U.S. Army War College.
I am saying the performance claims are false.A friend of mine had the old Stephens 103LX in his 50s vintage Klipschorn. He also had a newer one with an EV 15WK. Both were replaced with the K43E and sounded quite a bit better for it.
The old drivers fetched very high prices on eBay.
His LaScala also had the K43E. We vented it as per my design, and EQ'd as per my design.
The Klipschorn bass units were subsequently sold, the LaScala went deeper and sounded better.
The K43s were retained in the sale for future use, the buyer had his own K33s (I believe).
Edits: 03/17/12
His LaScala also had the K43E. We vented it as per my design, and EQ'd as per my design"
The room dimension and structure trumps any other consideration.
A LOT has to be done to make a LaScala sound decent. A stock Forte sounds better, mine are extensively modified as is almost everything else I make or own.
There are many flaws in Khorn {midrange mostly} Altec 311's and 511's walk all over Klipsch midrange.
Bass {in my room} isn't one of them
The Mind has No Firewall~ U.S. Army War College.
is it ported?
something strange...
just ask the people here for a 10-15cm conical 45 degree horn off of the face of the woofer or more...don't put the back edge of mouth across the edge of the woofer like EV 1502er...which is a great, midly horn loaded woofer PA speaker...(great speaker actually 100db/1w real effeciency)
if you go towards the 15cm distance, then the plane of the front edge of the bass horn lines up with where the front of the mid/high horn needs to be to time align the speaker....
I solve this by get good efficient woofer, find time align distance to your mid/high horn (by ear), then build a 45 degree conical woofer horn to match the mid/high horn...this will go down to 80hz or so check with "horn response software"...so you need a subwoofer...tune the ports accordingly...and you have amazing sound...ok...enough for tonight...???
Have Fun, -3db
particularly in midrange...LaScala especially is difficult; too many reflections...
You need a direct driver for mids: i.e. if you can't see the driver...forget it...
This gentlemans suggestions are good...I suspect that his coaching and designs using the Forte designs and mods ( you probably could still use a good Faital Pro, or B&C, or 18sound "ITALIAN"!! yes !! driver )
will get you WAY further than the LaScala...
So these are my thoughts: please discard at your leisiure...
Good Hunting, and Good Music to you,
-3db
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