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Need new low-mass 12" subwoofer driver

202.49.164.17

First, please note that I have posted a similar request for assistance in the speakers forum, but felt that with the replacement driver I seek being a fairly high efficiency (93dB), it would likely be best to also ask the high efficiency speaker mavens here as well. :-)

My old Cabasse Thor II subwoofer needs replacing. It is a downward firing, 4 Ohm 12" 'Polycell' low-mass high efficiency (93dB) driver. The woofer's stated range is 25-150 Hz, but Cabasse recommends you cross it over at 80 Hz, using their internal 6dB/octave sloped filter.
Cabasse will sell me a replacement, but with shipping from France it is nearly $1000NZD! That's just for a single driver. Ouch!

Can anyone recommend a source for a possible replacement driver, one that hopefully will not be quite so dear? I do not have any further specs for the driver's performance, sadly. The Thor II's internal amplifier is a strong 250 watts, and the driver's magnet has a hole (port) in the center of the magnet structure, as can be seen from the picture I attach.

I can buy one made in America, have it shipped to a friend in Washington state, who will send it to NZ for me. Or, if the recommended manufacturer is outside the USA, I could still maybe have it shipped to the US, or sent directly here, depending on cost.

I checked with Madisound, but nothing they offered seemed to be a good replacement. Same for Speakers USA. Did I miss something? Are there other, better sources I should try? A specific driver recommendation would be splendid!

Any and all assistance is very greatly appreciated. Thank you!

Cheers!

WS

Follow Ups:

Lambda Series TD12X 12" subwoofer driver - thetubeguy1954 05:46:32 03/02/12 (2)
Check out the AE Lambda series of 12" drivers. The 12X has close to the same specs you listed and is also 4 ohms, There's also the 12H 12M and 12s drivers by AE that you can check out at the link below. Best part is the price is between $300 and $400 I believe.

Listening to:

Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata )

Full-range/Wide-range Drivers --- Front & Back-Loaded Horns
Central Florida Audio Society -- SETriodes Group -- Space Coast Audio Society
=================================================================================
"The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not moved with the concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, deceptions, and spoils;
The motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Hell. Let no such man be trusted."

- William Shakespeare from The Merchant of Venice; Act V,i
- Lambda Series TD12X (Open in New Window)
- Been there already..... - Winston Smith 22:00:32 03/02/12 (1)
  ... and they are not operational currently, apparently due to parts providers no longer supplying.
  
  A few days ago I sent a long and detailed e-mail to the guy who owns/runs the company, and I got back a "no reply" message saying that the company was out of business for now, and to check back at the end of March and maybe they'll have something going.
  
  Their stuff is pretty wide-range in frequency response, but has some very nice specs. It does not appear to be a low-mass driver, though. Matching up with the Cabasse Rohacell driver will be a ridiculously tough PITA, as the Rohacell cone is unbelievably light yet very stiff and rigid. It is a very fine performer. Tough to replace, dammit!
  
  Hopefully someone will peg something that will work well and not cost an arm and a leg. Fingers are crossed..... :-)
  
  WS
  - RE: Been there already..... - Scholl 12:14:07 03/03/12 (0)
    Dang, they owe me a pair of IB15s yet.
93dB, 26.7hz, in 4100 cubic inches - djk 02:00:20 03/02/12 (8)
Driver Properties
Name: 295-120
Type: Standard one-way driver
Company: Dayton Loudspeaker Co.
Comment: Nov 2011 (New)
No. of Drivers = 1
Fs = 29.6 Hz
Qms = 10.55
Vas = 128.1 liters
Cms = 0.351 mm/N
Mms = 82.29 g
Rms = 1.451 kg/s
Xmax = 8 mm
Xmech = 12 mm
P-Dia = 254 mm
Sd = 506.7 sq.cm
P-Vd = 0.405 liters
Qes = 0.36
Re = 6 ohms
Le = 3.07 mH
Z = 8 ohms
BL = 15.97 Tm
Pe = 275 watts
Qts = 0.348
no = 0.89 %
1-W SPL = 91.64 dB
2.83-V SPL = 92.89 dB
-----------------------------------------
Box Properties
Name:
Type: Vented Box w/ Active HP Filter
Shape: Prism, square
Vb = 2.37 cu.ft
Fb = 27 Hz
QL = 6.24
F3 = 26.7 Hz
Fill = minimal
No. of Vents = 1
Vent shape = round
Vent ends = two flush
Dv = 4 in
Lv = 15.74 in
-----------------------------------------
Active 12 dB/oct. HP Filter
Fx = 27 Hz
Qx = 2

Edits: 03/02/12
- Interesting.... - Winston Smith 22:20:15 03/02/12 (7)
  I will have to copy this info and send it off to my NZ speaker repair guy for analysis, because quite frankly I don't know dick-squat about this kinda stuff (wish I did, though.) But with Cabasse not giving out the same detailed performance data publicly, in any website or forum I am aware of, it is hard to compare, at least for me.
  
  Isn't "Dayton" sorta a little mid-fi, not exactly haute stuff? I recall that their caps are mid-grade (I've replaced enough of them in some cross-overs I had to know that much), and so I would hate to get the driver over here and find out it has some performance problems that make it unsuitable for my application. Think I'll leave it to my 'expert' NZ speaker repair guy to give me his considered opinion as to suitability. Again, I don't know shit. :-)
  
  Thanks for the help. I appreciate your efforts on my behalf.
  
  Hopefully, someone will come up with a really low-mass/ultra rigid cone design that fits all the other parameters, and then I'd be sitting pretty! But as Presto said back in the Speaker Asylum, finding a drop-in unit that will match performance parameters of an exotic design like this will be tough, and I sure as hell appreciate everybody doing their best to help me out in this regard.
  
  I'll see what my NZ speaker tech says, but he's a slow reply kinda guy, so that may take a while.........
  - port size ? - djk 01:41:17 03/03/12 (6)
    That Dayton driver is made for them by Eminence. It is a very good value. The only other feature one might wish for is a shorting ring in the motor assembly. OTOH, shorting rings don't reduce distortion in the bottom octave anyway.
    
    Some of the other Dayton drivers are made for them by TC Sounds, one of those might also be suitable, but they are more money.
    
    It would be nice to know the port size in the existing box to see how it's tuned.
    - Port size dimensions, as you requested........ - Winston Smith 02:38:13 03/03/12 (5)
      DJK-
      
      I had posted that info for Presto in the "Speaker" asylum a few days ago. Sorry you didn't see it. Here it is again:
      
      "First, thanks for all your help. Now, in answer to your questions:
      
      One rear port, 5" deep, 3.25" in diameter.
      
      Also, regarding the cabinet's opening for the driver itself, the driver opening is 10 7/8" in diameter. The driver is approximately 12" across at maximum width.
      
      Hope this helps."
      
      By the way, the 'driver opening' I referred to in answer to Presto's question was the actual hole that the basket and magnet fits through into the cabinet's interior chamber. The driver itself is 12" in diameter from the outer edge of the driver flange across to the opposite outer edge of the driver flange. There are eight holes for fastener screws around the flange. The driver weighs a good 15lbs, so it has a very heavy magnet.
      
      That should do it. Please let me know if I can provide any other assistance. To the extent I can, I certainly will.
      
      Thanks again.
      
      Cheers,
      
      WS
      - RE: Port size dimensions, as you requested........ - djk 23:08:01 03/03/12 (4)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Port size dimensions, as you requested........ posted by Winston Smith on March 03, 2012 at 02:38:13
        
        That calculates out to a tuning (Fb) of 33hz~34hz, or 31hz if heavily stuffed.
        
        Edits: 03/03/12
        
        What if we lengthened the port? - Winston Smith 02:14:42 03/04/12 (3)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Port size dimensions, as you requested........ posted by djk on March 03, 2012 at 23:08:01
        
        If we lengthen the port, will that get us down nearer the 25Hz region, where the original Cabasse driver delivered good bass? My NZ tech looked over the Dayton specs and suggested that, saying that if we lengthen the port, the match should be good. Would you agree?
        
        RE: What if we lengthened the port? - djk 04:53:27 03/04/12 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: What if we lengthened the port? posted by Winston Smith on March 04, 2012 at 02:14:42
        
        It looks pretty good at 3.25" x 9.184"
        
        Driver Properties
        Name: 295-120
        Type: Standard one-way driver
        Company: Dayton Loudspeaker Co.
        Comment: Nov 2011 (New)
        No. of Drivers = 1
        Fs = 29.6 Hz
        Qms = 10.55
        Vas = 128.1 liters
        Cms = 0.351 mm/N
        Mms = 82.29 g
        Rms = 1.451 kg/s
        Xmax = 8 mm
        Xmech = 12 mm
        P-Dia = 254 mm
        Sd = 506.7 sq.cm
        P-Vd = 0.405 liters
        Qes = 0.36
        Re = 6 ohms
        Le = 3.07 mH
        Z = 8 ohms
        BL = 15.97 Tm
        Pe = 275 watts
        Qts = 0.348
        no = 0.89 %
        1-W SPL = 91.64 dB
        2.83-V SPL = 92.89 dB
        -----------------------------------------
        Box Properties
        Name:
        Type: Vented Box w/ Active HP Filter
        Shape: Prism, square
        Vb = 2.37 cu.ft
        Fb = 27 Hz
        QL = 6.24
        F3 = 27.11 Hz
        Fill = normal
        No. of Vents = 1
        Vent shape = round
        Vent ends = two flush
        Dv = 3.25 in
        Lv = 9.184 in
        -----------------------------------------
        Active 12 dB/oct. HP Filter
        Fx = 27 Hz
        Qx = 2
        
        How does this port check out? - Winston Smith 10:10:41 03/04/12 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: What if we lengthened the port? posted by djk on March 04, 2012 at 04:53:27
        
        Parts Express has both the Dayton driver and a VERY reasonably priced port (their only one for sale, BTW.) Here are the specs:
        
        Flared Port Tube 3" ID x 11" L with 5" Flared Ends
        Premium quality flared port tube for high output woofer and subwoofer speaker designs. The carefully engineered flaring reduces turbulence when the port is driven to very high air velocities�minimized airflow disruption results in less noise, lower distortion, and increased low frequency output. Attractive matte black finish; plastic construction. The large circular front opening may be cut with a jigsaw, or a circle cutting tool like the Router Buddy or Jasper Circle Jig. *Dimensions, overall: 11-1/4" length x 3" (approximate) inside diameter *Dimensions, front flare: 6-1/8" outside diameter, 5-3/4" cutout diameter x 3/4" depth *Dimensions, rear flare: 5" diameter.
        
        How does this work out for my enclosure, do you think? Too long? I'd hate to have to cut the cabinet, in case I decide to go back to the original driver. Any way to mount/install this without cutting? Your thoughts are VERY much appreciated!
        
        Many, many thanks for all your kind efforts on my behalf!
        
        WS
        
        RE: How does this port check out? - djk 02:01:15 03/06/12 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: How does this port check out? posted by Winston Smith on March 04, 2012 at 10:10:41
        
        -----------------------------------------
        Box Properties
        Name:
        Type: Vented Box w/ Active HP Filter
        Shape: Prism, square
        Vb = 2.37 cu.ft
        Fb = 27 Hz
        QL = 6.24
        F3 = 27.11 Hz
        Fill = normal
        No. of Vents = 1
        Vent shape = round
        Vent ends = two flared
        Dv = 3 in
        Lv = 9.043 in
        -----------------------------------------
        Active 12 dB/oct. HP Filter
        Fx = 27 Hz
        Qx = 2
RE: Need new low-mass 12" subwoofer driver - Kloss 14:49:14 03/01/12 (0)
Fostex FW305 12" Woofer Cast frame

Foam surround

8 ohm impedance

fo to 3.5kHz frequency response

95dB sensitivity (1W/1m)

5.0kg Net weight (11 lb)

Impedance 8 ohm

SPL 95dB (1W/1m)

Rated Input 40W

Music Power 125W

Fs 25Hz

Re 6.6 ohm

Qts 0.25

Qms 2.73

Qes 0.28

Vas 254 L

X-max 4.8mm

no 1.4%
FYI- Ported enclosure with 4100 cubic inch displacement - Winston Smith 12:43:28 03/01/12 (0)
Sorry guys!

Forgot to mention these subwoofers are ported designs with 4100 cubic inch internal displacement.

My bad.

WS
RE: Need new low-mass 12" subwoofer driver - Kloss 11:03:54 03/01/12 (0)
Fostex fw305 or Eminence lab 12

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