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I finally came to a firm decision the other day. I'm done with horns. I have tried 3 pairs of Klipsch speakers. The KLF-10, Quartet, and the Cornwall 1. They all had a different sound, but they all had two things in common.
-They sounded very live and had pinpoint accuracy that could not be touched by any non-horn speaker on some music.
-Other music is harsh to the point that it literally drives me out of the room. Certain frequencies just hurt my ears and sound way too loud at any volume.
I've held out for years due to the first characteristic, but the second one is starting to bother me to the point that I am ready for a change.
I've been reading about the Tekton Lore and it's big brother, the Pendragon.
http://tektondesign.wordpress.com/2011/06/07/new-tekton-design-pendragon/
These seem to be a good alternative to horns. Still high efficiency, but without the pain of horns. Are there any other alternative in this price range that I should be considering?
"Idiocracy" had it all wrong. We'll be there way sooner then 500 years!
Follow Ups:
Dude! dump the crappy glitch and buy some real horn speakers!!!!!!! Ask here any one will give you a recipe to build a set of awesome horns diy for less then what you get for the glitch speakers you have. Or just start with a set of clapped out pa boxes.
What type/brands of amplification have you used to drive your Klipsch's?
........I was a vegetarian for 15 minutes... until the main course.
I recently purchased a pair of the Tannoy Cantebury speakers and, like Jim Smith said earlier, these are great right out of the box. I've had all variety of speakers over the years including Avantgardes, Quads, Duntechs, and Thiels, and these Tannoys are so much fun to listen to with all types of music. Go out of your way if you have to and listen to the Tannoy line if you can.
nt
Hi, long time no see..
Did\do you like the ATC mids?
Scott
Listening to one of the world's most highly regarding studio monitors (ATL EL150) reminds me why I have a hard time with how much of today's releases are mastered (i.e. how they sound.)
Virtually all the great mid century recordings (RCA, Mercury, Decca, etc) were monitored on something with horns (Altec 604, Tannoy DualConcentric) and very high efficiency speakers. The only exception to the horn monitors were rare- Eckmiller, RCA LC1.
Jonathan
I have 1974 factory stock Cornwalls & 1989 Forte 1 with Bob Crites upgraded crossover & new tweeters. The amplifiers I use are either a DIY SE 2A3 or a highly modified Eico SE EL84. The EL84 has been tweaked to the point I like only specific El84 plate, bias & screen voltages, other select tubes & capacitors. The 12DW7 junk tube was replaced with a Tungsram E80cc (thank god) & amp is rounded out with Mullard EZ81. the EL84 actually gives the 2A3 a run for the money, but not a 2A3!
Anyways, I like the Forte better than the Cornwalls. I do not get any harshness at all, just a poor source sounds poor. I can hear these speakers are horns. The horns have an immediancy that is impressive IMO. But, the sonics are not true high-end. I rate the Forte 1 speakers mid HI-FI and enjoy the sonics. For the money the Forte is a good value.
I find many people that seem to like horn speakers for thier dynamics but can't seem to settle down for a life time with horns often are satisfied with panel speakers. Maggies run off high power amps can give a lot of the dynamcis and sparkle of horns without the shout. I went the opposite way and never looked back. but I admit speakers are a taste thing not science and what appeals to me may not appeal to you. I love my Klipschorns, but I spent significant time getting my system built around them. best of luck, Tony
Jean-Francois Lessard 2A3 PP amp
Marantz 7T Preamp
Klipschorns w/ALK xovers
Sony CX350&CX-230 cd changers
MSB link DACIII w24/96k
MSB digital director
Luxman PD-272 TT
Technics M85 Cassette
I went from a horn system (BR bass, Altec 511/802D, biamped) to Maggies (MGIII) at one time, but the maggies, while doing many things right, never gave me the impression of a live performance I often got with the horn setup. So...I went back to horns, and have never looked back. While horn systems are not perfect, I find that they create a believable illusion more often than any other type of loudspeaker I have owned.
I to am a maggies to horn guy and have never looked back. I do find find that people who have a liking for the horn sound tend to also prefer panel speakers, when compared to DR that is...warm regards, Tony
Jean-Francois Lessard 2A3 PP amp
Marantz 7T Preamp
Klipschorns w/ALK xovers
Sony CX350&CX-230 cd changers
MSB link DACIII w24/96k
MSB digital director
Luxman PD-272 TT
Technics M85 Cassette
Aurum Cantus G1 Ribbons with high quality mids (if you build yourself).
I have mine paired with two Focal Audiom 6wm drivers for a fairly high efficiency (about 96db or so), the immediacy, dynamics, speed of horns, but with cleaner sound and no horn shout. It does bite your wallet though to do right.
PeterZ
As I posted below, I was in pretty much the same boat as the OP last year after spending 1.5 years with Klipschorns. I upgraded the XOs with Crites', rope calked the mid horn, sealed the cabs to the corner, dampened the tweeter and mid horn, rewired internally, on and on in an attempt to get rid of the 'shout.' Nothing worked. Somes days I loved the speakers, other days I hated them because they were Oh So Close.
One day I was listening to the radio in my car and I thought If only my KHorns were nice and mellow like these car speakers. That's when I decided to change. I ended up with full range single drivers and I have not even come close to regretting selling the KHorns. FRSDs may be for you, maybe not but there are other options besides this type of horn speaker.
My point being that there are a lot of people who really like these speakers (I'm talking Klipsch, maybe horns in general in this price range), but some people don't.
Some of you guys are suggesting horns that I'm not familiar with and I assume cost a lot more than ~ $1K. I guess that's fine if the OP wants to go that route.
Some of you guys are suggesting upgrading to the point that pretty much the cabinet is the only original part of the speakers. Again, it's up to the OP.
My suggestion is sell them and look for something you like. Do not throw good money after bad.
But that's just me.
My "why don't my speakers sound like that?" moment comes when listening to my Sony MDR V6 headphones. Although not really high end headphones, they just seem to do everything right. Perfect reproduction from top to bottom and they never sound harsh no matter when I play. They really make me wonder if that is what FRSD speakers are like.
"Idiocracy" had it all wrong. We'll be there way sooner then 500 years!
"Sony MDR V6 headphones. Although not really high end headphones, they just seem to do everything right. Perfect reproduction from top to bottom and they never sound harsh no matter when I play. "
Sounds like high end to me. :-)
------------
The more you spend, the more you save.
I LOVE the immediacy and dynamics that seemingly only a horn system can provide. However, I cannot tolerate the shoutiness and coloration that every such system I've experienced has imparted.
I could almost tolerate my ex's Klipsch KG5.5s (once I modified them & put a CJ PV5 preamp in the system.)
Otherwise, I've gone running from the room while trying to listen to various Klipsch (La Scala being the absolute worst), Classic Audio Reproductions (T1 and T3), and an Avantgarde Duo (which I SO wanted to like because I could have purchsed for almost nothing because the owner had the same impression that I did...)
I have heard one Klipschorn setup that seemed pretty awesome, but it was in a dedicated space and matched with components that ameliorated any ill effects - not something I could copy in any space I have available.
I use SET amps. 45s to be specific. I love Horns.
Cut-Throat
I have also moved on from horns at present. But, The better horn speaker systems (compression driver mids on up and front horn loaded cone woofers) that I have designed, constructed, owned and or used were/are stunningly remarkably ALIVE.
I have owned K-Horns that were quite good as well. What you describe sounds as though there is something out of sorts. Like one driver in the system or more wired out of phase.
This can often cause a hyper detailed and focused area that seems quite impressive, but, the rest of the spectrum often suffers as you have described.
I am enjoying the HELL out of designing very, very good Open Baffle speaker systems currently. However, I always keep a more traditional commercially designed and manufactured speaker system on hand to make sure that I don't alow myself to get too carried away with ONE sonically favored aspect of my current project.
Try comparing your horns with another pair of good speakers to hear if your issue is indeed a problem and not a properly functioning speaker that is not to your taste.
Lance A.
Another good one to check out is the 'Cornscala' on the Bob Crites site. This is a Cornwall done the right way. I also like the Selenium D405 mid driver, and use one in my system. Klipsch speakers are a good idea compromised by cheap components.
I just received my CornScala style D cabinet's from Bob Crites yesterday. They are the 2 ways with the Faital mid/tweeter as opposed to the Selenium driver. I will post a few pic's and a review when the build is complete.
........I was a vegetarian for 15 minutes... until the main course.
Hi--I live in the Twin Cities and am considering building the cornscala D type. Did you complete the project and in general how satisfied are you with the sound. Any feedback would be appreciated.
I have read good reviews of Rethm speakers. Horns. I am looking for one to listen to, so cant comment on the sound yet.
Cheers
Bill
...especially more modest models. Before giving up on horns altogether, try to listen to some other manufacturers' efforts.
"Your liver suffers dearly now for youthful magic moments...so rock on completely with some brand new components"
has turned many an audiophile from the path to horns. I liked the dynamics, but always dismissed horns because all that I had listened to in a home environment was Klipsch.
Once I heard a better rig, I was hooked.
nt
all the best,
mrh
The Volti Audio Vittora does not have any of the negative traits of horns. You should give it a listen before giving up on horns.
Wow, very cool looking speakers! Must take some process to bend Baltic Birch! While there is no way I could justify spending $11k on speakers, complared to others in that price range these certianly seem like more bang for the buck!
I noticed on their website that Volti will be at RMAF in October. I heard the Vittora at the DC Capital Audiofest in July and liked them a lot.
Khorns with upgraded crossovers and or midrange horns aren't as you describe. Even more important is a proper tube amp. Before you bail out on the Khorns ask for some suggestions. Altec is another horn option that will definitely change your opinion with proper crossovers and amplifiers.
Had a pair, liked the bass but abouve a few hundred hz they sounded very bad. They could have been fixed with the B&C De250 and RCF H100 combo but they just we're worth the effort. Bad horns are bad speakers and can't be fixed.
...better horns.
For example, check out PiSpeakers. They do not have that harshness you're talking about, not at all.
Duke
Me being a dealer makes you leery?? It gets worse... I'm a manufacturer too.
... you've got a lot more horns to hear before you (should) call it quits, I'd opine.
Use your own judgment.
all the best,
mrh
Do you still have your Cornwall`s. If so why not bring them up to date with new titanium driver diaphragms for the horns and some new caps for the crossovers and if you find that to be going in the right direction then some new large gage solid wire air core inductors. That ought to give you what you are after for a lot less money than most any new speakers. I agree with Tom I just dont see the point of goint to small high efficiency as you are just going to be increasing your overall distortion levels. Of the Klipsch speakers I have which include late Heresy (1) with the K700 mid horn (resin plastic not cast metal, though I have those too) Quartet, Forte (1&2)and KLF20 plus a set of CF3 (not yet built upfrom parts)the KLF 20 have about the very best horns and the least complex crossover with the smallest value inductors which makes them sound good and also the least expensive to upgrade. All have been upgraded with new Titanium diaphragmes (the Heresy got new CT125 tweeters phenolic but sound excellent)and I have worked on two sets of KLF20 with one set where I switched the reflex vents from the back of the cabinet to the front to permit closer wall placement in smaller rooms. I also think that you might like a set of CF3 three driver two ways designed by Roy Delgado.
I run high density fiberglass pads behind all my comp driver diaphragms and like the results cheap and easy for you to try out. There are also German made ultra high quality C-core auto transformers which will further the performance level of any of the Klipsch. Fully upgraded I dont think you would recognize your old Klipsch and to try and find an off the shelf speaker with the same quality of parts is going to cost you and arm and a leg. There are a number of upgrade threads over at audio karma on assorted Klipsch why not have a look and explore your options. I hope this is of interest. Best regards Moray James.
moray james
The Cornwalls I have have had every possible upgrade done to them except the titanium driver diaphragms. Bob Crites told me that there was no upgrades for the k55 drivers. Can I get a link?
I have changed the tweeters to the CT 125s. The midrange horn has been changed to the Fastrac Cornwall.
http://mysite.verizon.net/imagelib/sitebuilder/misc/show_image.html?linkedwidth=560&linkpath=http://mysite.verizon.net/res12il11/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/DSCF0427.JPG&target=tlx_pictxvo&title=Fastrac%20Cornwall
The new wider horns did mellow the sound out a little, but not enough for some music. The crossover boards have been upgraded to some custom built 400hz boards. The internal surface has been lined with a product that looks like mini egg cartons. All of the internal wiring has been replaced with 14 gauge silver over copper wire.
I have a love hate relationship with these speakers. I love them when I have John Mayer or Jack Johnson cranked. I hate them when listening to Nickelback or even The Beatles if you can believe that. The whine in "While My Guitar Gently Weeps" makes me feel like I am doing real damage to my hearing.
"Idiocracy" had it all wrong. We'll be there way sooner then 500 years!
Well you hace been making a serious effort with your Cornwall speakers. I switched my K77 Heresy tweetere to a set of CT125 abd liker the smooth and extended sound they offer. So I think it would be fair to say that your issues are with your mid driver. I realize you have invested a lot of time money and emotional effort in your Cornwall`s and I will suggest you spend a little more and finish the job. It`s time to try out a newer set of mud magnet driver fitted with the new Klipsch Titanium diaphragms. I have a pair you could try if you really needed them. That should solve your issues. I hope this helps. Best regards Moray James.
moray james
I also noticed a big difference with the highs using the CT 125 .vs the stock k77s. What would a set of titanium k55 drivers cost and are they true screw in replacements? I already have close to $1000 invested in upgrades so I guess it does seem a little silly to just give up and try something totally different.
"Idiocracy" had it all wrong. We'll be there way sooner then 500 years!
I forgot to mention that there are a couple of adaprtes to allow you to screw on a mud magnet. The metal snouts were designed for a K700 and would need to be machined out for your horn and the plastic resin snouts as were used in the KLF series horns which have largrt openings so fine for your application I think and Klipsch probably sels the plastic ones but please check with them to see. I have both so if you are in a pinch and need to borrow a set just let me know by PM. Best regards Moray James.
moray james
The typical price on Ebay is around $200.00 a pair for the mud drivers and K52, K55 or K61 would all be direct drop in replacement drivers. You can buy the drivers with Ti diaphragms directly off of Klipsch so they can quote you. I bought all my Ti mid diaphragms (made by Klipsch) used from guy who tried them and prefered the phenolic versions) personally I feel there is no contest between the two with the Titanium units bringing a whole new level of performance. I also use high density fiberglass pads behind all my diaphragms tweeters and mids. I like them but you should try for yourself and see what you think. Since you have upgraded horns you can get a set of adapter of who made the horns to fit the ceramic magnets.
I have sets of K52, K55, K61 and original Hepner K52K drivers if you are interested you can PM me. Also I don`t see any reason why the K77 could not be fitted with Titanium diaphragms but it would require modifacation to the butterfly of a pair of Ti diaphragms but the CT125 sounds very good so I have not bothered so far. I hope this is of interest and good luck , I hope that you find what you are after sound wise. Best regards Moray James.
moray james
What did "The Cornwalls I have have had every possible upgrade done to them" set you back? How much more for the Titanium Drivers?
Bob`s Ti tweeter diaphragms are about $60.00 a pair and Klipsch sell the Ti mid diaphragms for about $187.00 a pair and both are well worth the price of admission. Best regards Moray James.
moray james
Like I said, I already upgraded the tweeters and it was an improvement.
It sounds like the mids might be more trouble then they are worth. That could explain why Bob Crites not have have official upgrade option for CW1 owners.
In any case, I've been bitten by the upgrade bug or at least the try something completely different bug and am likely heading down the Pendragon path.
"Idiocracy" had it all wrong. We'll be there way sooner then 500 years!
Why do you want high efficiency direct radiators? I don't see any advantage to them over low efficiency direct radiators unless one has a specific low powered amp in mind, at least unless the direct radiators are large, like an Altec 416 15" woofer or a pair of 12" 414s. But small high efficiency direct radiators?
When I dehorned I went to low efficiency direct raditors (one set of hybrid stats and one set of conventional chinless cone&domes) and with low to medium powered tube amps at that and things are fine.
As for horns, as has already been expressed here are those that sound very different from the Klipsch models you had. You might find some horns that are far more pleasing. If you gotta go high efficiency you might as well go the whole hog with horns or horn-DR hybrids with large woofers.
My opinion anyway.
I was thinking that I could try these if I wanted to give horns another try.
http://www.tyleracoustics.com/Images/speakers/Pro%20speakers/pd15_kw_lg.jpg
I saw a post somewhere that compared them to a Klipsch speaker(I don't remember the exact model) and said that the Tylers were not harsh like the Klipsch.
"Idiocracy" had it all wrong. We'll be there way sooner then 500 years!
you could probably do just as well and save a lot with an "Econowave" setup using a cheap ~constant directivity waveguide of sufficient size to mate with the woofer's directivity at the crossover point. The nice thing about DIY can be the fun factor (if not too much money & time is dumped into things) plus you're not buying someone else's DIY.Econowave THREAD
Heritage Klipsch midrange horns - especially (Heresy & Cornwall) are basically too small and their dispersion narrows as the frequency goes up due to their expansion geometry with a narrow long neck - this makes them hot dead on axis and rather vague off axis.
harshness sometimes can come from insufficient power reserves but not at very low levels - what range of genre do you like and what kind of amplifiers do you run?
Tom Danley made an ingenious waveguide which integrates several midrange drivers with a compression driver at its apex for the highs. Within the angle of its walls, everything is well balanced and integrated.
Earl Geddes offers systems with a round waveguide which meets "technical correctness" for today for blending a direct radiator with waveguide - (I've not heard any of the offerings) Duke LeJeune/Audiokinesis makes speakers of that sort too.
I've had one Karlson coupler lash-up with a 28" deep/ 1" format big-radial horn with a mouth of ~32" wide and 7" tall, and a ring radiator to help the top - wtih Nick Cave's better recordings and a cheap solid state amp it sounded very "real" on vocals - so there went the theories....
Heresy probably sounds worse than it measures - here's one of mine
- when it first arrived I thought something was "broken" - but
realized its just what it is :^)Look at this on-axis Heresy I graph around 9KHz - the midrange horn/driver
has a peak not too far down when it should have a smooth rolloff - not only does this contribute to harshness, it also is adding another spatial source at that frequency to confuse things - a LCR trap carefully tuned would help.
Edits: 09/07/11 09/07/11 09/07/11 09/07/11 09/07/11 09/07/11
I never heard a Klipsch loudspeaker I liked EVER
There are plenty of other horn type loudspeakers that do WAY better
then Klipsch!
until you A/B them with a pair of Altecs such as the Valencias. Game over.
all the best,
mrh
"I never heard a Klipsch loudspeaker I liked EVER."
Ten-four on that. Strident in the midrange, and uneven bass response.
Never cared for the Altec A7, either. Similar issues. Can't say about the Valencia or 19 - never heard them.
The only vintage "home" horn/semi-horn system I ever liked was the Electro-Voice Sentry III. Although, Frazier made a few that were nice.
The Electro Voice Sentry III is an amazing Horn speaker for something ready made.
It will rattle the walls with low bass, has a warm open midrange, and an excellent tweeter. Because of it's wide dispersion, it really likes a large room. It sounds NOTHING like any Klipsch I have ever owned, thank God!
I have a pair in a 24 foot wide room, firing straight ahead, and the sound is quite warm and very theatrical. Except for the super large sound, many of my audio friends were surprised when I pulled the grills and they saw that big ass C/D Horn and horn tweeter. My kid told me he can't wait for me to die, so he can own them, WTF ?
This is a great opportunity to teach your kids how to manage money.
Sell the Sentry's to me before you die, and let the kids do whatever they want with the money. They'll either: A. Piss it away; B. Put it in a no-growth bank account; C. Invest it wisely; or D. Buy the speakers back from me.
:)
I could not imagine life w/o my Sentry III's, seriously!
I listen to them every single day, and always come away shaking my head.
For some reason, old Motown Music like Diana Ross and the Supremes really comes to life on them. This song in particular, recorded in Detroit Michigan at Motown records, and played back on speakers made in Michigan USA, the Electro Voice Sentry 3 Monitors.
Well, just a thought, the harshness in Klipsch caused me to move to Altec. I may move on again but perhaps you would find Altec to be a lot smoother than Klipsch. You probably have already thought of that but something to consider.
.
Blame Klipsch, not horns. Those aren't really horns in my book, these are horns.
.
Teenage Mugger: [Dundee and Sue are approached by a black youth stepping out from the shadows, followed by some others] You got a light, buddy?
"Crocodile" Dundee: Yeah, sure kid.
[reaches for lighter]
Teenage Mugger: [flicks open switchblade] And your wallet!
Sue Charlton: [guardedly] Mick, give him your wallet.
"Crocodile" Dundee: [amused] What for?
Sue Charlton: [cautiously] He's got a knife.
"Crocodile" Dundee: [chuckles] That's not a knife.
[he pulls out a large bowie knife]
"Crocodile" Dundee: THAT's a knife.
[Dundee slashes the teen mugger's jacket and maintains eyeball to eyeball stare]
Teenage Mugger: Shit!
[he and his friends run off]
Wow! Those are indeed some horns. Would love to hear them!
For a non-DIY solution, I went to Tannoy, in my case the Canterbury SE with the 15" dual concentric driver.Claimed 96 dB sensitivity. Out of curiosity, after getting them dialed in, I measured the Canterbury's output vs. a Zu claimed to be 98 and it was 3 dB louder than the Zu for the same input! I've thought that Zu is optimistic on their ratings anyway, but this surprised me.
What I like most is the the Tannoys' utterly natural rendition of vocals & instruments, with incredible tone and presence. Extremely involving to listen to music - one of the most musically involving speakers commercially available today - with the exception on the much larger and more expensive Tannoy Westminster - of course, IMO, IME...
Benefits from a few tweaks, but good right out of the gate.
Downside is expense if purchased new. And maybe size - but probably not if we are already talking about horns!
Best regards,
Jim Smith
Edits: 09/07/11
NT.
Some 30 years ago, I listened to two Tannoy speakers side by side, a 15 inch and a 12 inch dual concentric. I loved the 12 inch so much I could still recollect the sound. So free and easy it sounded, unrestrained and flowing. I listened to mostly Rock and Jazz and what an experience. I wish those speakers were cheaper. Another speaker I remember this way is a Shahininian Obelisk.
Cheers
Bill
If you held out for years then you're a better man than I. It took me 1.5 years with KLipschorns before I gave up. I worked with them a lot to get them to sound right but couldn't. What you describe is exactly what I was dealing with, some music sounded great but there was a lot of music I simply couldn't enjoy and never played.
Having said that, I'm not sure Klipsch is a good representation of horns.
I first bought Tekton Katz Meow V1 and later Lores. If your room is small I would think either would do, I have both and in my small room I prefer the Katz at the moment, but I swap them every so often because I like them both. I was shocked at how the 8" Katz filled the room and gave me most of what the KHorns gave me but without that 'thing' that drove me nuts. The 10" Lores are fuller but not quite as articulate. They do excellent in my larger living room.
I drive them with a 2A3 SET @ 4 watts. The lack of a crossover really seems to make a big difference in the amp's ability to play well.
I've been curious about the Tektons after reading users/owners opinions. We seem to be in the same boat. How small is your room? What 2A3 are you using? How loud does each pair get? What kind of music do you prefer? What are some of their flaws? I too am horned out. Thanx.
My room is 12' x 13'
The 2A3 is a DIY I built based on the JE Labs linked below
100 db is pushing it pretty good, but probably has more to do with the cube I'm in and the 4 watt amp and not the speakers
I listen to rock (Zeppelin, Dire Straits, Radiohead, Ben Harper), jazz (classic like Miles Davis, et al), jazz vocals (Norah Jones, Tierney Suttoin, Karin Allyson), and other stuff (Ryan Adams, Lyle Lovett, Lucinda Williams, Chris Isaak). All of that sounds great.
Downside is that I can't really crank Zeppelin TOO loud. Also, you get what you pay for - I can't complain about the bass, clarity, imaging, but I also can't claim that it's better than much more expensive systems in those areas.
The upside is that I can listen to it all day long; very smooth. The Katz especially disappear and get pretty holographic.
When I booted out the Klipsch I just sat there and wondered what the heck I was killing myself for over the previous 1.5 years.
We must live in the same place. My room is about the same size and I too built the JE Labs 2A3, (which I love, by the way). Now I'm even more intrigued by the Tektons.
with the Katz and the 2A3 amp. I just went up and played Dire Straits Sultans and used a RS meter to measure.
That's louder than I almost ever play. I wouldn't mind building a 300b or something with a little more juice one of these days, maybe at Christmas time.
If you're ever in Austin...
My room is approx 17x20 with really rough acoustics. There are tall windows behind each of the speakers, a slider to one side and an open wall right behind my listening area that leads to the kitchen.
From what I have seen, many people that started with the Lore liked it but decided they needed a little more and upgraded to the Pendragon. Given the size of my room and the challenges that any speaker will face I'm thinking of just going straight to the Pendragon.
I listen mostly to rock and alternative. I have a 60wpc Kt88 based amp, but may switch to EL34's for lower wattage and a smoother sound.
"Idiocracy" had it all wrong. We'll be there way sooner then 500 years!
"My room is approx 17x20 with really rough acoustics. There are tall windows behind each of the speakers, a slider to one side and an open wall right behind my listening area that leads to the kitchen."
Perhaps the speakers are not your problem. You're hoping for perfect sound from a crappy room. Try some room treatments instead.
I had my Lores in a friends room that was about the size of yours. They played well and filled the room, sounded good - But if I had that size room I would probably not put Lores in there only because there are probably better options (although I don't really know because I haven't had any reason to look).
I haven't heard the Pendragons but they certainly look big enough.
If you like the Pendragon, then go for it. Much better to get what you *REALLY* want than to waste money on an intermediate step.
But you might want to see if there's a pair of E-V Sentry III's out there. It's still my hands-down favorite high efficiency high output stereo speaker. I installed four of them in a relatively "dead" nightclub, hanging from the ceiling. I did some acoustical treatment, and included a UREI EQ. I heard both Thad Jones and Freddie Hubbard play in that room, and, if I may say so myself, it was freaking awesome. And, they sound good even with a lot of glass surfaces around. We used to play those puppies in the store with a full front wall of windows, plaster walls, and vinyl-over-concrete floor.
Also, as noted in my reply to P S G, Frazier made some very nice horn-loaded systems. Maybe there's a pair around somewhere.
Good luck!
Too many windows
if you're game to diy and experimenta 6" piece of pvc makes an excellent sounding waveguide to augment woofers
and one Karlson builder uses the slotted open end waveguide to augment Fostex FE206EN in his custom Karlson-coupler.a long-distance friend is testing a K-coupler/tapped transline designed by Greg B. over at Gregg Baker's Karlson Loudspeaker forum.
Horns are cool but they're not the only thing in this world.
Fostex FE206EN in a custom little Karlson coupler - not much bass but
very good midrange and highs (considering its that driver)
Beta 10cx with APT50 in an old diy Karlson 12 copy - hits a
good bass drum with my AlephJ clone
ugly painted K12 copy loaded with P-Audio 12CXA
3-K-couplers: A k12 with cast frame 800z magnet Eminence, A X15 copy
with Audio Nirvana stamped frame Super10, and a 1954 Karlsonette
loaded with Tangband W8-1772 all sitting in front of my Klipschorn
An EV15B in a 29"x20"x15" K-coupler built by KK Audio for bass guitar
The KK Audio Karlson-coupler topped with a Transylvania Power Company
slotted tube waveguide - its extremely natural sounding in the highs
plus this is a very good little bass/midbass coupler
Scrap 5" k-coupler with a $10 Dayton 5"
K12 with Beta 12LTA - Beta 12LTA lacks motor but over at Diyaudio,
those guys are impressed :^)
Ancient dried up University 122 speaker - Fs > 100Hz, Qts <1.4
damn thing sounds great on Jimmy Roselli
Closeup of FE206EN in the 1954 little Karslsonette - its better
than my Klipschorn for coherency with the better percussion CDs
plus rocks oh Johnny Cash
Edits: 09/07/11
Looks like I need to look at old photos more closely.
also 3-Karlson couplers were used by Owen Bradley as mixdown monitors
Edits: 09/08/11 09/08/11
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