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In Reply to: Re: SACD source, is old recording worth it ? posted by rick5 on August 01, 2002 at 10:31:53:
Tape hiss was an unavoidable side effect of the recording processes of the day. There is no way that watermarks are any sort of unavoidable side efffect of modern day recording practices. Watermarks represent a deliberately introduced distortion. This is very, very different. Can you not see that?
Follow Ups:
Actually, I see no need to make excuses for tape hiss. Yes it is present because of the technology of the day. As far as any watermarking that is audible(see, I am assuming it can be heard even though that debate is far from finished) well, I see posts that are against watermarking for "philisophical reasons". As far as the music industry is concerned, copy protection, via watermarking or otherwise is becoming mandatory. My comparison is not based upon whether tape hiss is right or wrong or whether watermarking is right or wrong but basically, if we have no choice, what will the future say about watermarking? To me there are semantical differences only, the end result is the same. Discs with tape hiss are much more intrusive to listening than the discs I have heard that are watermarked. If your logic of the limits of technology hold, then why do some "older" recordings have tape hiss and some have less? Maybe 10 years from now, others will not care about watermarking cause it will be the norm. I view it as hypocritical and comment because of it. Saying because one is inherent to the process of recording and thus is OK versus one is inherent to the production of the medium we listen to so is bad is splitting hairs. This, of course, is only my opinion.
...will not buy software that I know to contain AW, nor will I buy discs from a label that is known to use the AW for the format in question, unless the package clearly states that AW has not been used.You must be aware that once AW is considered accepted practice by the music industry, the more subtle AW used today may be replaced by a stronger, more intrusive form, which accomplishes the aims(whatever exactly they may be) even more efficiently than the current level of watermarking. The best way to avoid this IMHO is for large numbers to vote with their wallets, and send e-mails and letters stating the reasons they will not be puchasing AW'ed software. This applies to those corrupted 44.1 discs trying to pass as Redbook CDs recently, as well as DVD-A from labels like Warner.
despite the AW on DVD-A, we can look forward to more of the same as pirates WILL break the watermark and Warner's et al WILL respond with allegedly more robust (?) (aka stronger/more "acoustically objectionable") watermark schemes in attempts to fight a losing battle.
Mobile Fidelity LPs. I was scarred to try a Warner's DVD-A, but I now feel that these are actually some of the best master tapes from a Major label, and you all know I don't trust major labels.What concerns me more is HOW a recording is made and how the finished product sounds and if I LIKE THE MUSIC, Watermarking is not important to me unless it degrades the sound quaility. In Warner's case I don't believe it does, as these Warner recordings never sounded so good.
I am guessing they do not.And so how can you know whether the watermark degrades the sound or not? You have never heard them without the watermark. They may sound even better without it. Unless you think they could not possibly sound better. Which would be hard to believe.
may sound better without the watermark, we may never know? I will deprive myself waiting for something that may never come!
and I speak as one who still listens to and enjoys many many CDs which contain music that will never come out in any other format. So I am not criticizing anyone for listening to anything. All I am saying is that when you say the watermark does not degrade the sound, you do not have enough information to make this statement.
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*Maybe 10 years from now, others will not care about watermarking cause it will be the norm.*Maybe we will have to live with it as we do sometimes with tape hiss, but until then then I'd rather not have it in my music. Therefore, I prefer to support technologies that don't impose watermarking today.
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