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Has anyone heard this release? I have the RBCD's, but would buy this if the sonic improvement is substantial. FWIW, I am only listening in 2-channel.
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Yes - I own it and it is very good. The disc contains all 9 symphonies in 24/96 mastering, plus a rehearsal sequence of the 9th. The sound is at least as good as the LPs - which I also own - and certainly better than the CDs. I'd recommend it without reservation.
Dave
I agree - I had some (but not all) of these recordings back in my LP days, but I haven't heard any of the intervening incarnations. I will say that, if I can rely on my ancient memory (!), these recordings have never sounded better than on this 24/96 blu-ray, and it's so refreshing to hear a DG recording without all the engineering manipulations and absurd multi-miking that company began to experiment with in the following decade (e.g., in the Kleiber/VPO Beethoven 5th and 7th).
This set has always been an icon - and with good reason. We hear the intensity and thrust of the Toscanini approach, but with a far more refined sound quality. Moreover, the tone quality of the BPO at this time was so wonderfully individual - especially in the winds. This tonal individuality was gradually lost during the Abbado era, during which the orchestra's tone quality became more bland and "international" sounding. (At least IMHO.)
This is the same BluRay that was offered with CDs a couple of years ago (kind of like when the Solti Ring came with CDs and BluRay and then they released just the BluRay a little later).
I have the SACD set of these same performances, but I haven't had time to compare them. My guess is that is sounds very similar to the SACDs, but I'm not positive. The sound is definitely better than the original CD set that came out years ago. In fact, it sounds pretty good. The SACD set is five SACDs and a sixth disc of rehearsal for the ninth in full-size jewel boxes. The single BluRay has the same contents in one case that's slightly thicker than one jewel case. Merely on a space-saving basis I would opt for the BluRay. The BluRay's indexing is very primitive. There are only track numbers; no indication by symphony. If you know that you want to listen to the Seventh and you know that all of the symphonies before it are four movements except for the Sixth, you will know to go to track 26 to start.
Are you saying they don't list which track goes with each symphony, so you have to count or guess? This is so stupid it's mind boggling.
As you navigate each track, the information about that track appears in a separate area of the screen. No guessing involved! ;-)EDIT: Having said that, I do agree that the indexing is indeed a bit primitive.
Edits: 08/02/16
I stand corrected! I was so concentrating on which track number was the first movement of the seventh symphony (math in my head and all that) that I failed to notice the track detail displaying in the lower half of the screen when each number is highlighted. Also, I just discovered that if you highlight and select the tracklist "hot-spot" ol' Herb's picture disappears and a complete detailed list of the symphonies and movements by track shows up.
I'd much rather be seeing a listing of the track details than I would Herbie's posed "profundity" expression! ;-) (The Beethoven symphonies are so deep, SO deep! - LOL!)
BTW, I still haven't listened to the Ninth yet, but the more I've listened to the others, the more I've been impressed by DG's remastering. It sounds REALLY good - at the perfect intersection of detail and spaciousness, and no obvious spotlighting. One thing I hadn't remembered is how Karajan mostly keeps the brass on a tight leash - no overblowing and swamping the strings. I like it! My wife thought that his fourth movement of the Fifth Symphony was just a bit too moderate in tempo, so we listened to about seven or eight other recordings of that movement that I happened to have handy. At the end, she felt that none of the others were actually as good as the Karajan overall (despite his moderate tempo). I may post more detail over at the Music forum if I have time.
This discussion is amusing: People are assuming my question relates to what is shown on the video monitor that anyone would have. What I am actually asking is there a booklet (remember them?) with a track listing, LOL. Nothing like being a luddite!
has a track range by symphony (see above), and the booklet itself has detailed individual track listings. Is this what you wanted to know?
Yes!! Thanks.
Out of curiosity I inserted the BluRay into my Oppo 105 without the TV on, and when I pressed the "1" key followed by the "3" key on the remote, the first movement of the Fourth Symphony obligingly started, so I guess you can play this disc randomly without a TV.
Am I the last person on earth who doesn't want to look at a video screen in order to listen to music? I stare at a computer all day, so
I have taken pains to keep TVs and computers out of my listening room, but it appears the battle is lost. Thanks.
I seem to recall that the SACD issues were not a hi-rez remastering from the analogue tapes but just lower rez files files upsampled. Is there any evidence that this is not the case?
The provenance of the BluRay issue isalso open to question. Note the "weasel wording" of the sticker on the package, no reference to the analogue original master tape.
On the whole UMG seem very reticent about the provenance of their remasterings, for example the recent vinyl recut of the Karajan Debussy La Mer/Ravel Daphins and Chloe Suite disc is described by them as "mastered from original sources" which can mean just about anything. The result certainly sounds very inferior compared to the 1965 pressing.
Sometimes a new remastering in hi rez from an older digital master, even RBCD, is both necessary and can yield excellent results. For example, the Solti Ring BD-A at 48k had to be done that way because the analog masters were unplayable. And, I found the results superb. IMHO, that set of recordings never sounded better. I see no reason whatsoever to get out the LPs.
It is likely the 1963 Karajan analog masters are in the same fix, as all analog masters everywhere are slowly deteriorating. Eventually, there will be none. Analog tape is just not the archival medium we would like it to be. Digital is of course "perfect sound forever." Well, it might not be perfect, but digital can be made to last forever with care.
So, hopefully they have done a good job with the Karajan set, whatever the source.
Good post. Yes, a good remastering is a good remastering irrespective of source. You make me open to trying the BluRay Karajan just to find out how good it is. However I cannot figure any way of integrating a BluRay player with my audio system due to the need for a screen to navigate the disc, without even considering the connectivity issue.
Digital recording moves on and one difficulty concerning digital archive material produced from analogue originals is the technology that was available at the time. This means that much material is archived at 16/48 or 20/48. But, as good is good, my objection is really with some record company's weasel words used to trick punters into buying something that they are not actually getting. 16/48 in a 24/96 downloaded wrapper is not 24/96 IMO.
It is also worth remarking that the oxide shedding that affects many old analogue tapes is not universal and relates particularly to one brand. Furthermore it seems that analogue masters deemed unsuitable for playing one day ( e.g the stated need to use digital masters for The Beatles Stereo and Mono CD re-issues) somehow become playable later (the mastering of The Beatles Mono on vinyl box set).
OK, analogue tapes won't last forever. But we haven't yet quite reached that point for everything and I believe that mastering solely from digital sources, irrespective of the purpose, is often just company policy rather than a judgement on the state of the particular analogue master in question.
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