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In Reply to: RE: BIS SACD - Dynamics in general posted by Tony Lauck on June 16, 2012 at 20:41:22
I admit I know very little re recording technology, however I do know what I hear and that is I find BIS SACD discs out of step with all the other major labels for playback volume levels especially with their claim that they are the only one with uncompressed dynamics So they are right and all the other majors are wrong ? I have not read any CD/ SACD reviews complaining re lack of dynamics from other labels.Good luck to those who have no problem with BIS playback levels. I shall not be buying any more BIS discs which even the BBC say need volume level adjustment.
Edits: 06/17/12 06/17/12 06/17/12 06/17/12 06/17/12 06/17/12 06/17/12Follow Ups:
Disbeliever said: "I admit I know very little re recording technology, however I do know what I hear and that is I find BIS SACD discs out of step with all the other major labels for playback volume levels especially with their claim that they are the only one with uncompressed dynamics So they are right and all the other majors are wrong ? I have not read any CD/ SACD reviews complaining re lack of dynamics from other labels.Good luck to those who have no problem with BIS playback levels. I shall not be buying any more BIS discs which even the BBC say need volume level adjustment."
I know that I have been advised to just let it go, but I cannot have someone quoting me as saying something I haven't said.
The logic I will not repeat yet another time is unassailable. Mr. Disbeliever obviously does either not understand it, or is disbelieving. I have talked to a number of colleagues that do admit to taking down the very loudest parts in order to get the general (average) level up. I have never said that everyone does it, nor would I ever accuse (if that is the correct word) them of doing so. I just maintain that the logic points in that direction, IF Mr. Disbeliever is correct when he states that all other labels have a louder average level. I have even admitted that in some cases it is possibly preferrable to adjust the levels for easy listening at the consumers' homes. It is a matter of basic honesty with me not to do so, advisable or not, and that's an individual choice, good or bad. It is at least honest that Mr. Disbeliever confesses to knowing "very little" about recordings (surprise, surprise!!), but, if that is so, why doesn't he skip the "Dis" in his moniker and listen to someone that does know a bit or two??
It is almost pathetic that he refers to BBC in almost every post. The situation is VASTLY different with a radio producer, who has to cater to people with perhaps small radios or car radios in an analogue broadcasting system, rather than the audiophile, sitting at home with a decent system. I cater for the latter.
So, to cap: if listening pleasure or ease with the consumer is the main goal, there is no right or wrong. So I certainly don't say that all the others are wrong. However, if the goal is to present what the Artists did, adding or subtracting nothing, then "my way" is the only possible one. As soon as the recording engineer starts twiddling the controls, he is usurping the power of the musicians. Logic, Mr. Disbeliever, logic. Try it sometime. It is not that difficult, but infinitely rewarding.
Robert von Bahr robert@bis.se
phew ! Bissie with regard to the BBC you should understand that the program I refer to is CD review, Presenter & reviewer Andrew McGregor Broadcast every Saturday morning, FM on BBC Radio 3. This programme is for classical CD/SACD only, they play latest releases also older ones to determine what they say is the best performance for building a CD library/collection It is extremely unlikely that listeners are using small radios or car radios, this is a program aimed at classical only audiophiles and connoisseurs.It was on this program that I heard Andrew say the levels of BIS SACD needed adjustment. He has never before as far as I am aware made such a comment re any other label, IMO this substantiates my complaint...
Edits: 06/17/12 06/17/12 06/17/12 06/17/12 06/17/12 06/17/12 06/17/12 06/17/12
Disbeliever,
You seem to be saying that you prefer your audio system to sound like FM radio. That's clearly a personal preference on your part. Perhaps that is why not one single person has posted in your support in this thread. You should have just left this one alone and not posted originally. It has shown you in really poor form.
You should have left Mr. McGregor out of things too.
Absolute Nonsense
Your comment is a complete summation of all your posts in this thread, for sure.
This is of course what I usually expect from you Nonsense nothing changes. .
So, are you out of words now and just repeat yourself?
Look, while you may feel smug and arrogant, you've shown yourself as a total idiot with this thread. You should have left it all alone. You received no support from anyone for your views, only derision. You can deny this all you want, but it's all there in print for anyone to read.
Idiot,I have never said or even implied that I prefer FM radio to my audio system. Do you not understand English. what is wrong in repeating what Andrew McGregor of CD review says about BIS that the levels require adjustment. Get Knotted ,if you know what that means.
I knew you would have something cute in response, and in frustration.
I think the above posting from Mr. McGregor has clarified the issue.
If you don't like the BIS recordings, fair enough, just leave all the other stuff out. You should have just left it all alone.
If you had experience with more than a few SACD's, which I doubt from your irrational position, you would realize that many more than BIS require level adjustment. All here have conceded BIS disks need to be turned up. There is no argument about that. But, many others - I mentioned Praga, but also Harmonia Mundi and quite a few others - need to be turned down. So, you are still ignorantly assuming there is only one correct level, which does not square with the facts. So, get ready to give a whole lot more disks away and enlarge your petty vendetta against a lot more labels.
In any case, only a lunatic would raise such an outrageous and repeated fuss - a whole thread's worth of tirades - over a simple thing like having to adjust the playback level. One commentator on the radio mentioned this, and you have gone totally bonkers, hostile even to experienced audiophiles who are only trying to give you a rational perspective based on much more experience than you obviously possess.
Gerald, you are reaching new lows of credibility and sanity. You need serious help. You are quite simply a nut case, childishly vying for attention rather than engaging in rational discussion. But, in the process, you publically embarrass yourself to a degree which is simply mind boggling. Are you not aware of this? Apparently not.
Healthy skepticism, implied by your moniker, is good. But, that is the opposite or what you are. You are an irrational true believer in only a narrow set of arbitrary ideas, which you hold uncritically against any larger perspective. Once again, you have snatched one belief and doggedly denied the wisdom from many others here, whose experience on the matter far exceeds your own.
I have no problem with SACD on Channel Classics,, Chandos, Decca. Exton,EMI,Hyperion, Living Stereo, Linn, Opus3, Pentatone, Philips, Reference Recording,Sony, Telarc, 2L , Naxos when they produced them. Surely more than a few as you wrongly say, only problem I find is with BIS.
Edits: 06/18/12 06/18/12 06/18/12 06/18/12 06/18/12
Disbeliever said: "I admit I know very little re recording technology, however I do know what I hear and that is I find BIS SACD discs out of step with all the other major labels for playback volume levels especially with their claim that they are the only one with uncompressed dynamics So they are right and all the other majors are wrong ? I have not read any CD/ SACD reviews complaining re lack of dynamics from other labels.Good luck to those who have no problem with BIS playback levels. I shall not be buying any more BIS discs which even the BBC say need volume level adjustment."
I know that I have been advised to just let it go, but i cannot have someone quoting me saying something I haven't said.
The logic I will not repeat yet another time is unassailable. Mr. Disbeliever obviously doesn either not understand it, or is disbelieving. I have talked to a number of colleagues that do admit to taking down the very loudest parts in order to get the general (average) level up. I have never said that everyone does it, nor would I ever accuse (if that is the correct word) them of doing so. I just maintain that the logic points in that direction, IF Mr. Disbeliever is correct when he states that all other labels have a louder average level. I have even admitted that in some cases it is possibly preferrable to adjust the levels for easy listening at the consumers' homes. It is a matter of basic honesty with me not to do so, advisable or not, and that's an individual choice, good or bad. It is at least honest that Mr. Disbeliever confesses to knowing "very little" about recordings (surprise, surprise!!), but, if that is so, why doesn't he skip the "Dis" in his moniker and listen to someone that does know a bit or two??
It is almost pathetic that he refers to BBC in almost every post. The situation is VASTLY different with a radio producer, who has to cater to people with perhaps small radios or car radios in an analogue broadcasting system, rather than the audiophile, sitting at home with a decent system. I cater for the latter.
So, to cap: if listening pleasure or ease with the consumer is the main goal, there is no right or wrong. So I certainly don't say that all the others are wrong. However, if the goal is to present what the Artists did, adding or subtracting nothing, then "my way" is the only possible one. As soon as the recording engineer starts twiddling the controls, he is usurping the power of the musicians. Logic, Mr. Disbeliever, logic. try it sometime. It is not that difficult, but infinitely rewarding.
Robert von Bahr robert@bis.se
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