|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
210.6.45.89
Hi all,
I am a 2-channels audio guy and have been away from the Home Theater (HT) game for many years. However, my wife love watching movies. In view of the recent development in the AV playback system and media player, I determined to "integrate" to my 2 channels system a HT system with media player.
After some search, it seems that the OPPO 93 or 95 is a good candidate for a mediate player in a HT and audio system. Apart from the universal playing function, it has SACD, DVD-A and fac/WAV files playing capability.
As an audio guy, I want to boost the audio performance of the OPPO players. I am now deciding whether to get a stock OPPO 93 or 95 or a modded OPPO 93 0r 95. I would be very much grateful if users of OPPO units or modded OPPO units could share your experiences and advise on the following:
1. How is the audio performance of OPPO 93 compared with OPPO 95?
2. How is the analogue out OPPO 93 /OPPO 93 compare with a good CDP, a good SACD player?
3. Does the OPPO 93/95 has good audio performance when playing Flac/WAV files?
4. How are the performance of the commercial mod such as Wright, RAM, JLTI, Effective Audio mods compare to each other?
5. Are the mods worthwhile and how are the extent of boosting in audio performance? It seems that there are only very very little review or user comment in the net.
I know that the above are all long questions and sorry about that. I am too ignorant on the above and can get little information from the web. Your comments or information will be very helpful for my decision.
Thanks a lot.
Follow Ups:
I've got SACD and CD covered. The 93 is suppose to be as good as the 95 for movies, and is half the price. But File playback is potentially a great feature. Opinions/actual exp?
File playback is a stupendously good feature. I use it via the eSata port, as do a number of my friends. We are all quite convinced that RBCD sounds slightly but noticeably better from the hard drive than from the silver disk. DVD video is also no problem from the hard drive. If only we could easily do SACD that way, too. We expect to be evaluating the Channel Classics downloads in the near future.
Hi Andy,
I’ve been doing similar research. What I’ve read of others’ experiences is contrary to “thebordas’s” experience. Here’s a link you may want to start with. Exemplar and EVS are two other modders you might want to consider. By the way, I’ve owned an Oppo 95 for a few days, so it is not burned it yet. It sounds good, but a little strident so far. People say it will change quite radically, and sound much better. Fortunately, Oppo has a 30-day return policy. I can at least say that my experience so far is also contrary to “thebordas’s”. I’m not saying he’s wrong, though. Maybe he had the player in a strange mode. I have no idea, of course.
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr_srch.pl?&1&procsrch&3&4&
When you get to the search screen from the link, do a search for Oppo 95 in the digital category.
Here are a couple other links. The first starts with the first page of the thread. The second is a bit into what is a very long thread. I’d read a couple pages forward from post # 1075, including Mike Lavigne’s comments (and I think there is a link to his amazing system):
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1311806
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1311806&page=36
Good luck
For 2 channel audio the Oppo is an urban myth, when compareed to well executed players with decent output stages. Cambridge Audio, Denon and even Sony outperform them for around the same price. I purchased the latest 95 just to see what all the buzz was about and found it to be extremely annoying....it inflicted it's own inflated, toneless, enemic gestalt upon every disc I played. For an all around utilitarian device it's a value for sure. For serious 2 channel audio it sounds like every other run of the mill CD player or worse.
dave_b
I think modding is something of a slippery slope. I have no doubt that it can change the sound. But, usually, the evaluation is difficult because you cannot hear the modded and unmodded units side by side. Normally, you can only rely on a recollection of the unmodded sound or on others testimonials, most of those heard under similar conditions. I just do not think that acoustic memory is that reliable. There is much to much trust involved in the process for me to even consider it. I think it's much better wherever possible to do A-B comparisons in your own system.
Yeah, you have to really trust the Modders rep and believe:O) Modwright is first rate, thorough and reliable...they back up their work with a 5 yr warranty plus he has a good ear for music.
dave_b
"Yeah, you have to really trust the Modders rep and believe:O)"You do understand that the undesired angst of trust and belief in others is his point? Your position seems to be an unmitigated, 'you can trust me'.
Edits: 03/14/12
To a certain extent, every purchase requires trust, no matter how well we have evaluated a potential new component. Until we live with it we don't really know it completely. I have used Modwright (based on trust) and they were top notch and delivered a better player in return for my money. How much better is always going to be subjective and up for debate. trust me:O))
dave_b
"Until we live with it we don't really know it completely."
Since one is unable to reverse a mod, there is more of a likelihood of fooling one's self-gratification.
"How much better is always going to be subjective and up for debate. trust me:O))"
It's really inconsequential to someone whose stance is not to modify. There is absolutly no reason to trust you. We've come full circle.
Are you a robot? You certainly exchange ideas like one! I'm not trying to talk anybody into doing anything...I'm just mentioning my thoughts and experiences. Maybe you should re-format your hard drive:O)
dave_b
I'm sure you mean well. "Trust me", strikes me as carny-speak.
"Maybe you should re-format your hard drive:O)"
I hope that doesn't become necessary.
So you are a robot! I knew it:O) The "Trust me" at the end of my last retort was meant to be a literary device to instill upon the reader a sense of irony and or amusement. FYI, I always mean well...but that doesn't make me infallible. It just makes me a guy with an opinion, like you Mr. Roboto.
dave_b
"Trust me" seems to be your personna.
You speak binary and I speak english...I don't think we will ever understand each other completely. Sorry:O( Or should I say, bleep bleep boop boop bleep blippity bleep.
dave_b
The thing that bothered me most was that it sounded kinda recessed. A friend brought it over, with maybe 30-40 hours on it. I ran it via the balanced outputs and compared it to my Oppo 83SE for SACDs and Raysonic 128 for CDs. I figured it was lack of break-in and maybe needed its settings checked (yes,it was set for 2-channel stereo). But on the basis of this one session, I didn't like it nearly as much as I expected to. I thought it was really second-rate on CDs, compared to the Raysonic. As we say around here, IMHO and YMMV.
Hi, Dave. Good to know as I was seriously considering purchasing one and if it doesn't sound good in your system it probably won't sound good in mine either based on past experience. If I can pull the funds together while there are any still some left in stock, I'm going to pull the trigger on the Denon D-100 from Music Direct. By the way, I just finished playing that Wayne Horvitz CD and it sounded great! Don
I think you may just fall for the Denon A 100....exceptionally musical with superb detail and extension, but not to the point of distraction. The A 100 serves the music well:O) Fell free to check in once you get it if you have any thoughts , questions or concerns.
dave_b
I sure will, thanks! I have a feeling it may be right at home in my Quad ESL/tube system :-)
Stop....your making me jealous:O)
dave_b
Mine was also set for 2 channel FYI
dave_b
Those are strong words! about a player that gets mentioned at every turn in the digital playback arena regardless of format, why because its SOTA and hard for many to believe a true universal player has finally been produced.Personally I see no need to mod an already stellar machine, what I hear those who have gotten them back describe the sound as what I found in the stock unit with decent cables ( Ps audio AC10 & AQ Columbia XLR/Rca) I would assume one would put good cables on there source and other components to achieve the best playback possible. If this doesn't do the trick then and only then would I consider a mod but in the case of the 95 this is completely unnecessary, But who am I to say! After one year to the date of having the 95 in my setup it has continued to engage, reveal and stun me!I went out on a limb to get it and 30 days latter pronounced it a true Giant Killer! But maybe it should be Giant's !
I am happy for you:O) My "opinion" is in comparison with other players in a 2 channel system only and does not reflect it's merits as a universal machine. On the other hand, my one interconnect alone cost more than the Oppo 95, so there are no weak links in my system I'm afraid:O( Enjoy!
dave_b
2 Channel is the primary reason I bought the 95 and it does this with stand alone results! The fact that it does everything as though it where its only function is what makes it SOTA. You say it has no tone,I find that as its strong suit brass, strings and tympani on previous sources of mine never delivered this level of fidelity.I'm a bit curious as to how you setup the 95 when you had it in your possession and just how long you let it settle in?
PS
I forgot to mention one obvious deal breaker for me, which was the anemic bass. That I could absolutely not live with.
dave_b
Hi-fi News recently reported that the mediatek-platform players (including all the Oppos) require the speakers to all be set up to "large" configuration with the sub-channel set to on (regardless of whether a sub is used or not) to acheive flat bass response, otherwise the bass will sound "anemic."
Excellent point...that could have been part of the problem indeed:O)
dave_b
Anemic bass? I'm not sure I can agree with that at all, its some of the best I've heard, It's full and extended, taunt with great pitch definition.I fully expected the opposite with the an Oppo product, my Denon 5900 it replaced had what I described as a big full sound . The 95 didn't give up that big full sound but refined it to the next level and then some,Prat leading edge transients led to a natural tonal decay and not for the sake of a more spacious (dsp hall like) sound which it indeed has. It was for the stated reasons alone I felt confident enough to sell my Denon and Pioneer 51fd. I'm no fan boy and had to eat Crow after my first month with the unit. Just trying to tell it like it is!
Did the Oppo have a big full sound (and extended) from the beginning, i.e, within a few hours of play?
Yes the sound was full from the beginning besting the Denon 5900 I had on hand at the time at 125 hrs of playback.
Just re-read some reviews and noticed the Absolute Sound mentioned the reticence in the bass region for the Oppo 95. Also, if you read carefully and between the lines, you will find that often times what seems to be a "Giant Killer" review is couched in terms that limit it's degree of awsomeness. Terms like, "it's the best SACD/CD player I have heard to date" or "it's the best I have had in my system". Of course this means just what it is intended to mean...that it's the best THEY have purchased and played at home...not the best period! Reviewers also tend to elaborate on the technical aspects and features more than actually concentrating on the audio only, let alone 2 channel. When they do give a favorable review, they also tend to make little side notes on the component(s) that turn out to be major problems after you purchase it:O( Bottom line as always is to trust your own ears, but remember, your perspective may be narrower in scope than someone elses. Of course, ignorance can be bliss...at least temporarily:O) I am amused at the fact that the Oppo 95 has op amps in place of a real discreet ouput stage, yet some seem to hear exceptional performance far beyond it's capabilities. Worth is in the ear of the beholder, and in our individual perspectives and experience. I will go on record by standing behind my claim that Team Oppo has deliberately voiced their 95 with a definate "sound" that is neither neutral nor faithful to the music. Afterall, it's the only way you could attempt to make it sound bigger and more spacious than it otherwise could, sans a proper output stage. Of course all the above is IMHO
dave_b
The 95 needs no mods in my case, and would seem like a waste of money, I'm not sure what could be improved upon and one might want to look else where in the signal chain as they would with pricier gear , but for those who believe the price point has something to do with it have the more narrow perspective! If you to find out for sure drive your amp direct with the 95, Oppo has just released a firmware with smaller increments for the the volume control on the 95, try this before mods!
Here we go again. Look, it's a nice $1K player with lot's of features, but it don't mean a thang if it aint got that...Discrete Output Stage!!! But hope certainly does seem to spring eternal. At least in Oppo land anyway:O)
dave_b
You sound pretty sure about that! but clearly not the "Bee's Knees" And once again the equation of price with performance. Audio is going through a revolution of smaller companies beginning an all out assault on the current state of the market. sure if its worth paying more for to get it then that's what ya gotta do, but not at the moment especially since the emergence of the 95!
All I can say is that I couldn't get rid of it fast enough after listening to material I've had for along time and played on various reference gear over the last 25+ years. That has rarely happened...even when the gear was value oriented:O)
dave_b
I agree with you about the op amps. That's why, if I keep the Oppo 95, I will have it modified (of course, a good modification will also address quality of parts, power suppply, etc.)
I agree completely...what's there is good, but a serious Mod should make it really good:O)
dave_b
Different ears and different systems make the world go 'round:O)
dave_b
Bought from dealer fully broken in (400+hrs demo)and settled in for 1 week before I decided it just wasn't that good. Remember, I didn't save up for it or feel as though I had to keep it for any reason...in other words, I didn't have any new toy psychology going in that would normally sway ones evaluation toward the positive. I sold it quickly at a minimal loss. evaluation was in my sitting room system, which consists of an NAD C375BEE IA, Denon A100 SACD/CD player, a Yaquin Tube stage buffer wt a Phillips JAN6922 tube, MIT Shotgun 3.3 cabling all around including in the pre-amp jumper position, Audioquest NRG 10 PC's for the Buffer and Denon and an MIT M AC2 PC for the NAD. I also have a B&W PV1D sub augmenting my PM1 speakers. I have owned reference gear from ARC, Mark Levinson, Krell, Musical Fidelity and McIntosh...among many others. Front ends have been reference level from the above companies and others with various cables including Transparent Reference and MIT Oracle. Music I used has been heard on all the aforementioned systems over the years, so they are a physical memory at this point, having heard them at their best. As any normal person would expect, the Oppo 95 falls way short of this gear, but I was surprised at just how odd it sounded to me in my home. I heard a definate sound being placed on top of the music, no matter what I played. It sounded exactly like some recievers I had used back in the 90's with DSP noise shapers that would generate their own idea of what say a "Concert Hall" would sound like. This is MY opinion and MY experience, with no axe to grind whatsoever. It simply is what it is:O) That shouldn't stop someone from looking for a value product like the Oppo or from considering it vs the competition.
dave_b
Are you proclaiming to be a contrarian or can site other examples of relative urban myths?
"Cambridge Audio, Denon and even Sony outperform them for around the same price. I purchased the latest 95 just to see what all the buzz was about and found it to be extremely annoying..."
What specific Cambridge Audio, Denon and Sony models at the Oppo 95's price point?
Perhaps your point is, none of the models from the other aforementioned brands are extremely annoying. Like, spearheading a crusade to dispel an urban myth.
"For serious 2 channel audio [OPPO 95] it sounds like every other run of the mill CD player or worse."
Better or worse than extremely annoying?
The Oppo 95 made everything I played through it sound like it was being processed via your average reciever with DSP processing mode set to "Concert Hall"! Sorry, but that's how I hear it compared to the XA5400, Denon A100 or the Cambridge Audio 840c. Oppo offers the swiss army knife for the "I want it all" crowd and succeeds on that level, and that level alone:O)
dave_b
"Sorry, but that's how I hear it compared to the XA5400, Denon A100 or the Cambridge Audio 840c."
So, "urban myth" and "extremely annoying", are merely superfluous hyperbole?
"Oppo offers the swiss army knife for the "I want it all" crowd and succeeds on that level, and that level alone:O)"
Another outlandish claim, poorly disguised as an opinion.
I recently compared my Oppo 83 to 2 stereo PCM DACs (Emotiva ERC-2 CD player and Bifrost DAC) and was surprised at how far I had been mislead about the sound quality of the Oppo. I love what my Oppo does for the money, but have now found that CDs can sound pretty great from a more dedicated DAC.
"I recently compared my Oppo 83 to 2 stereo PCM DACs (Emotiva ERC-2 CD player and Bifrost DAC) and was surprised at how far I had been mislead about the sound quality of the Oppo."
Gullibility is not a badge of honor. The Oppo 83 was supposedly stellar with stereo?
You're on the road to enlightenment, hallelujah!
I hope that your "participation" here adds value to audio discussions at least some times.You seem to imply that the 83 is stellar out of multichannel. I don't know how that can be if it can't do it w/ stereo.
Edits: 03/12/12
"I hope that your "participation" here adds value to audio discussions at least some times."
Makes no sense. Is this some sort of a test, a rite of passage?
"You seem to imply that the 83 is stellar out of multichannel."
If you read old reviews of this discontinued unit, its HDMI outputs were all the rage.
"I don't know how that can be if it can't do it w/ stereo."
Digital and analog outputs are different signal paths.
Were you using digital outputs for stereo?
Look goober, my opinions or pontifications are mine and as valid as anyone else's, whether or not YOU or your friends agree with them or not! I've owned $100K systems and base my assessment on many years of listening to reference components in my own home. I don't buy the latest hype from the rags or modders....I check it out myself. Usually the "followers" catch up with what I'm saying down the road. Summing up..it's all my opinion, to use your words, and no one needs to listen or be offended. Now go enjoy your system.
dave_b
"Look goober, my opinions or pontifications are mine and as valid as anyone else's,..."
Wrong! Fact is, I'm no goober.
"Usually the "followers" catch up with what I'm saying down the road."
You're goober!
"Now go enjoy your system."
I normally multi-task that way when I'm posting. I know, you don't get it.
I have to be honest with you, I'm not sure what your even trying to convey. I've told you my opinion. You seem to have one contrary to mine, no? So what's with all the quotes and suppositions? do you feel hurt? Would you like to talk about your system with me so you can validate your own self worth? I'm here for ya buddy:O)
dave_b
"I have to be honest with you, I'm not sure what your even trying to convey."Just reread my responses. I've done my level best to keep it simple.
Would you like to talk about your system with me so you can validate your own self worth? I'm here for ya buddy:O)
Frankly, I found "goober" to be less offensive. No thanks, goober.:^)
Edits: 03/13/12
A little clue for ya...next time just converse directly and skip the whole "Seinfeld" third person approach, ok? It seems that the simple concept of anyone having their own opinion, especially when it conflicts with yours or someone elses, is verboten in your world. I'll let you go back to planet GOOBER:O) Next time bring some personal experience to the argument as well, instead of using mine. I already know how I feel!
dave_b
.
Andy Griffith inferences aside, straight men are rarely appreciated.
Thank you...I'll be here all week:O) But seriously, besides my unvarnished opinion(s), I do strive for a bit of levity. Some people take this shit way too seriously...especially Deputy Fife from the Oppo police...sheeeez!
dave_b
According to What Hi-Fi ? the best buy is the Denon 2012UD. For stereo only playback better than the Oppo 93 is the 95. I would not waste money on modding any of these players.
Well thankyou: we now know your view on modding for the one hundred and fifteenth time. Were you abused by the local (take your pick) priest and this is (one) of the ways you externalise it?
Martin was one of the hard core early adopters of Bob Stuart's MLP, aka DVD~Audio.
He fought valiantly on the front lines here during the Great DVD~Audio/SACD war of 1999-2002, but all was for naught.
Your conclusion isn't far off the mark.
He's in denial, probably something to do with finally having to accept SACD's victory and inherent quality along with DVD~Audio's demise, but even though he must have HiRez--and that HiRez is now SACD and not DVD~Audio, he can't bring himself to mod his player, thereby making it even better, lest he admit deep down that the sound is simply stellar.
I think that people who are into self-multilation, have the same illness.
Chris
Maybe there could be a computer generated response: every time the words 'upgrade' or 'modding' occur, an auto response from Disbeliever states "You'd Be Wasting Your Money".
Good one.
It's instructive to cast one's mind back to how caustic that battle was here. Just awfully divisive.
And now some of the great DVD-As I wanted ("Hotel California" for example), but could not buy because I was a staunch SACD soldier, are now available on SACD. Must try that one.
Regards,
Geoff
he's the primary reason why we have DVD~Audiobahn!
Amazing.
Chris
We know that. Others disagree.
For example, two AudiogoN posts:
12-17-11: Jwm
I have both the Sony 5400ES and the Oppo 95. I modified them using Dan Wright of Modrights tube mods. I also had the Playback Designs cd player that retails for 15,000.00. The Sony and Oppo both sound way better than the Playback. Overall I prefer the Oppo 95.
12-21-11: Jwt
EVS/ Ric Schultz does a blu- ray modification to the OPPO 95 that's downright addictive and frankly unbelievable until heard. So musical and sweet, extended yet articulate. The digital sound has come a long way, a really long way. I have a beautiful analog set up about 5K and Ric's modified Oppo 95 challenges my TT in many ways and it's definitely got soul and then some. It's magical to my ears.
Regards,
Geoff
I have no interest in antique tubes.. It seems to me that you have not heard any player connected by HDMI for mch SACD. How much did your mods cost I suspect more than the Sony & Oppo players.
I have never owned an Oppo.
I have a Sony XA777ES that was modified by Ric Schultz (EVS), who lives quite close to me. The mods were $1500, and at the time the $3000 (MRRP) was readily available at much less - I paid $1900 delivered from Oayde Brothers. So your guess is wrong.
I've had a Sony 5400 (same as you) for about 2.5 years. The XA777ES was moved into the bedroom system. It has not been modified yet.
"you have not heard any player connected by HDMI for mch SACD"
Not that I recall. I'm not particularly interested in multichannel sound, and don't have a preamp that supports HDMI.
Regards,
Geoff
Lots of questions!! - I have a (Modwright - non-tube) modded BDP-83 in the main system and right now I have a BDP-93 being used in the secondary basement system. I had the BDP-93 in the secondary bedroom system for a bit and when I first got it I had it in the main system for a couple of weeks. The BDP-93 without mods is not going to as good in my opinion as a good CD player. I've heard the BDP-95 and think for $1k it is going to be competitive with $1k CD players. I've not played FLAC/Wav files. I have a Squeezebox Touch in the main system with an upgraded power supply going into my DAC. I may have a different take than others. I previously owned an all-out modded Sony XA-777ES. I have about 300 SACDs and I might buy at this point a dozen or so a year. I use an HDMI audio-de-embedder (e.g. Monoprice product ID 5557) which is inexpensive (although I have an upgraded power supply for it) into the DAC and feel the SACD converted to 24/88.2kHz through the DAC sounds better. I know someone who does the same thing with a BDP-95. So in summary, I probably would not invest megabucks in a hi-rez disc spinner. I'd get a good DAC.
Post a Followup:
FAQ |
Post a Message! |
Forgot Password? |
|
||||||||||||||
|
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: