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In Reply to: RE: PS Audio Sprout vs classic Harman Kardon pm650 posted by awinn.sd on February 04, 2016 at 11:17:33
Hello and welcome!I for one am happy to have new blood joining this hobby. I'm guessing that your not yet suffering from digestive issues, male pattern baldness, prostate issues, arthritis, and you still have a fairly flat stomach. All of this makes you an anomaly here on Audio Asylum.
OK, all kidding aside, let's start with Bluetooth, or the lack of it. The HK does not offer a integrated Bluetooth solution but, this can be remedied by simply adding a Bluetooth receiver which can be plugged into one of the line level inputs on the HK. These can be had for less than $50 on Amazon.
The Sprout has been reported to have some frequency response anomalies, mainly a significant boost in the lower midrange. This is presumably for increased "perceived" bass response for budget type speakers that will more than likely be mated to it. Let's face it, the Sprout will not likely have full range floor standers ($$$$$$) hooked up to it. Since you will be running a subwoofer, and thus would not require additional low frequency response boost, I would consider this a detriment.
Speaking of subwoofers; Most all powered subs (built in amplifier) allow for LFE (low level signal input via rca from the preamp out), and high level inputs (signal taken from the speaker jacks).
I would guess that most including myself prefer the high level method for connecting a sub. I however, choose to run the speakers full range, that is connecting the sub via speaker output and thus not using the crappy crossover found in most subs. To do this simply run a pair of speaker cables directly to the sub, then run a additional pair of cables from the amp to your speakers. Next; While you are in your desired listening position, have a friend gradually turn up the frequency level on the sub until the bass begins to get thick and congested, then back it down just a bit.
If it's not clear yet, I vote for the HK vs the Sprout BUT........The HK is on the older side and has old electrolytic capacitors that are a ticking time bomb. If it were me, I would consider something like the Cambridge Audio 651 currently on the "Trader Asylum" at this time for $350.
I have no affiliation with the seller.Take your time and gather as much information as you can before laying your cash down.
Also; the guys over at the "vinyl" Asylum will be invaluable to you if you need help with your turntable setup.
Good luck!
Meat; It's the right thing to do. Romans 14:2
Edits: 02/04/16 02/04/16 02/05/16Follow Ups:
....I found the sprout sounding muddy and muffled against similarly priced amps
Geez, you left out COPD!
Regards
Bill
Forgot that one along with gout, kidney stones, sciatica, bunions, macular degeneration, and of course dinky do.
Dinky Do: Belly sticks out further than dinky do.
Meat; It's the right thing to do. Romans 14:2
So... I'm waiting for my tax return (already filed) to purchase this all. I can get the U-turn Orbit w/ or w/out an internal preamp. But I was under the inpression that with the pm650 integrated amp, or the sprout, that I wouldn't need a preamp?
Edits: 02/04/16
Above: Modern NAD integrated amp
Above: A 1959 Sherwood S5000 vacuum tube integrated amp rebuilt by the master Michael Samra. It's a killer!
Ok.
Let's begin with the basics.
A integrated amp is a amplifier and preamplifier in one chassis. A power amp is a stand alone amplifier, and a preamp is a stand alone preamplifier. A receiver is a amp, preamp, and tuner (radio) in one chassis, but that's another story.
The audio signal starts at the source (CD player, tuntable, tablet, phone etc). It next goes to the preamp or preamp section of your integrated amp. It then goes to the power amp or amplifier section of your integrated amp, and from there on to the speakers.
Now; The preamp referenced in the Orbit turntable is a "phono preamp". A phono preamp is a device that through a thing called RIAA equalization feeds a signal to the preamp, which in turn amplifies that signal and sends it to the power amp and on to the speakers.
If the integrated amp(s) you are considering already have a built in phono preamp, then you do not need the phono preamp available with the Orbit turntable.
Most older integrated amps and receivers had a built in phono preamp as LP's were the standard for home Hi-fi at that time.
A lot of modern integrated preamps did not include a built in phono preamp because the CD had taken over as the main source for home Hi-fi.
You are doing the RIGHT thing by asking these questions now instead of going through buyers remorse later.
There are many very good buys available with regard to integrated amps. Some have built in phono, and some do not. It is easy to add a good sounding phono preamp that you can connect to a "aux" input on your integrated amp if it does not already have one built in.
If it were me, I would go the used route especially if you intend to upgrade and begin to get interested in this stupid hobby.
Others will chime in, but I would look at offerings from NAD, Marantz, Harman Kardon, Adcom etc......
For more info, Google phono preamp and there you will get a detailed explanation of what a phono pre does.
Keep those questions coming and you won't make the mistakes that many of us did way back when.
Meat; It's the right thing to do. Romans 14:2
When you look at the amps,they don't look like they don't look like they would set up a big masterful sound with tube attributes but one in proper tune is amazing.If anyone has an L2 or L3,they can probably tell you more but I really like these integrateds.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public
H. L. Mencken
You treated a newcomer with respect, and offered some good information without being condescending. Thank you.
I suspect you're right with your description of most of us in this hobby, though. Sigh.
No worries Todd, I get just as much satisfaction by helping a up and comer as I do getting new audio toys for myself. I suspect most here do as well.
I just hate it when a newbie reaches out and is met with condescension from the minority.
As for the general physical condition of the rank and file here; What are we to do when our prime is in the rear view mirror and getting smaller and smaller? Shrug our shoulders and turn it up!
Meat; It's the right thing to do. Romans 14:2
You're right, of course. I really shouldn't allow a few bad apples to color my perception. Thank you once again.
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