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24.16.7.82
In Reply to: RE: "44.1 actually sounds better than 24/192"... posted by Ivan303 on October 07, 2015 at 15:37:08
Ivan,it was fun seeing you at RMAF.....too bad we were too late for the Magico room.
not true.....44.1 does not sound better. but I would also agree that the native resolution of the recording can limit what resolution sounds best. but assuming some level of higher rez than redbook to start out, or starting out as analog, then the higher rez native resolution should sound better. I prefer almost always to hear any recording in it's native format. which includes tape, direct to disc Lp, and any digital.
I have what is said to be the best PCM dac, the Trinity Dac, and I can say unequivocally that while the redbook is superlative, higher rez.....88, 96, 176, 192 is better.....as you go up the steps better and better.....generally.
the Trinity dac has easily the finest sounding redbook I have yet heard. it overcomes all the inherent artifacts of PCM playback and takes it to another level. as a 15 year very strong proponent of dsd and a person with 3000+ CD's sitting dormant 'for years' until 6 weeks ago, I was blown away by hearing redbook on the Trinity dac. it changed my world view of things digital. but....and this is a big but......it takes a very high effort to overcome PCM's artifacts. dsd is much easier to approach optimization.
I have 7 terabytes of PCM, and another 8 terabytes of dsd, and so I have plenty of data to have a pretty good idea of how this works. I also have a server set-up which is pretty SOTA, the CAPS v4 Pipeline with additional hot-rodded LPS units added.
last month I ripped 1500 of my 3000 CD's.....and after I recover from all that i'll rip the remaining 1500. I'm delighted to be reacquainted with my old CD friends in their shiney new clothes. lots of great music which now sounds so much better.
cheers,
mikel
Edits: 10/07/15 10/07/15 10/07/15 10/07/15Follow Ups:
They SHOULD turn me away, You? I'd have let you in, set the room up again and given you a private demo! ;-)
Agree that the BEST Redbook CD could be surpassed by the BEST Hi Rez and yes, DSD from mic to speaker with no PCM conversion in between (Jared at Channel Classics certainly does the 'chicken right') would be the perfect world.
ALMOST as good as full analog chain mic to speaker via vinyl or 15 IPS tape. ;-)
At the end of the day, recording quality makes as much difference as playback technology IMNSHO. I can generally tell a great recording from a mediocre one just by streaming it over the internet.
Mostly. Hopefully I will someday find out for certain.
Envy you your Trinity DAC. Looks like you have four times the PCM1704U-K as I'll have soon (Audio-GD Master 11 on a slow boat from you know where). If it turns out to be even 25% as great at 5% the price, I'll be happy.
Keep your eye on Peter Q at Audio Note. Haven't spoken to him in a while but understand he still feels there is miles to go in Digital to Analog conversion via discrete resistor ladder DACs.
Wish him luck!
Great to to see you again and keep pushing the envelope!
I got my Master 7 and my friend got his in 5 days
Alan
Chinese Holiday I didn't know about even living in San Francisco where Lunar New Year is a bigger deal than January 1.
I understand they are now quite busy clearing the backlog as the word is definitely getting out.
That said, the PCM1704U-K is still available from Mauser at about $60+ in large quantities (I put 150 in my 'cart' just to see if they would take the order and the do) so I don't thing there is any fear that King Wa will run out of chips.
The technical explanation behind the Lianotec design is somewhat fuzzy to me.... I guess I'd have to listen to one in order to find out if it really does something special.
I think the notion that a 384 kHz native signal being oversampled in order to get rid of analog post filtering altogether seems nice on paper (and I think isn't unique to this particular design), but the potential RFI being passed through unfettered at such high sample rates kind of makes me cringe...... Not to mention potential havoc it might cause with some solid state electronics.
nothing 'nice on paper' about it. it is the real deal. it is by far the quietest, cleanest, most explosive redbook i have heard. vocals, pianos, any strings, horns, all sound great. super quiet backgrounds. amazing dynamic energy. yet zero edge or harshness.
i compare it favorably to state of the art dsd, vinyl and RTR tape in my system and it holds it's own like redbook never has before.
i realize that skepticism is the stock in trade of many. guilty till proven innocent when you can't connect the dots of your personal experience or technical understanding. benefit of the doubt is for others...not you.
here are 2 links which might help.....or not.
more detailed explanation....
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?12023-Trinity-DAC&p=238265&viewfull=1#post238265
how Trinity is different....
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?12023-Trinity-DAC&p=244005&viewfull=1#post244005
sorry, don't know how to post links in audioasylem
YMMV, just my 2 cents, and all that.
mikel
Fifty-eight grand..... (According to The Absolute Sound report... Link below.) Didn't realize the price of this was in the ionosphere..... It *should* be the best DAC in the world............
This is a product you could charge admission for people to listen.....
that article references the 'old' Trinity dac which was a 3 chassis affair and is no longer made.the newer one I have is a single chassis and it came out in late 2013.
I really don't know the exact list price as it's not imported into North America. it is around that same price area though.
I don't charge admission. you would be welcome to visit anytime to hear it. it is worth hearing to anyone who has an interest in the best possible redbook or PCM.
cheers,
mikel
Edits: 10/08/15
I wonder if this product was at RMAF........
Todd,
the Trinity dac was not at RMAF.
Trinity is a small German company with limited capacity. they are a huge deal in HK, particularly as it's a redbook/PCM centric market, and that market does absorb much of their output. with the labor intensive process for the dac they can only produce 3 a month.
at this point they sell direct into the North American market. they did have a USA distributor but do not currently.
I sort of stumbled onto them researching the ultimate PCM dac. the more I looked and researched and read, the more I was intrigued. I bought mine without ever hearing it. and it surpassed my expectations.
mikel
What are you listening to DSD with. I know the Trinity Dac does not do DSD. I have the Audio-GD Master 7 which uses the same 1704 chips. I have only heard DSD downloads on my Mytek Stereo 192. PCM on my Master 7 is wbetter than DSD on the Mytek. I have never liked DSD or SACD's
Alan
as of this moment I'm using both the Playback Design MPS-5 and the Lampizator Golden Gate dsd 'only' dac. the MPS-5 is a pure dsd dac which does not convert dsd to PCM. same with the GG.
the MPS-5 and the GG both do 2xdsd; I have 2-3 terabytes of 2xdsd.
the GG also does Quad dsd, although I don't yet have any Quad dsd files. I've only had the GG since Sunday; it is still breaking in.
mikel
Mike,
You'll have to let us know about the Lampi DSD DAC...I'm thinking of going the same route.
Thanks.
Vbr,
Sam
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