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In Reply to: RE: "Clone" amplifiers - can they be trusted? . . . posted by wangmr on June 25, 2015 at 06:46:01
When I lived in China I went to a 5 star hotel with other colleagues and we all got food poisoning - you see they look at the picture of what a hamburger is supposed to look like but they don't actually learn how to cook at a proper school and get food safe certificates and because NONE of the restaurants in Whenzhou actually use soap to clean anything then it's a place where a proper bowel movement is as rare as finding the dodo bird. It's pretty sad that the safest thing to drink there is a can of coke and the safest food is at McDonalds. Gaining 25 lbs over the year was bad but the only way to survive.
Abrahamsen was the founder of the company and apparently left to form his own company selling the same looking products for a lot less money. Some feel they actually sound better too. Is that considered a clone? Perhaps not but it's probably better than buying a copy.
Companies that use quality parts and know how to do a proper job testing and reverse engineering could come up with their own products. If they need to copy they have no interest in audio and conversely no interest in you as a customer - they only have interest in taking your money.
Follow Ups:
There was an article in an audio mag a few years back that described and showed photos of various Chinese 'fake' high-end components like capacitors, resistors, etc. that find their way into so-called 'high-end' Chinese audio products.
That would be just one of my fears buying Chinese made product direct from a manufacturer in China, or off eBay. If a stable US based company actually oversees component selection of their products made in China and monitors production there, AND they have warranty and service capability state side, I would consider buying.
Your complaint is valid except that numerous Western companies have been doing the same things over the years. The only difference is when you buy the Chinese knockoff you are paying knockoff prices - when the Americans do it they bend you over. (Ahem like buying $399 laser disc players adding $25 worth of parts and charging $5k). Indeed, even when Ming Da uses the knock-off so long as the knock-off actually works properly you pay your $699 for a tube amp and you kind of have to know you're not getting the best parts. So they silk screen Rudycon on top of some mainstream cap - but it's probably fine.
Indeed the product has a better than average chance at being at last "safe" because unlike the west, when a company sells products that are deadly there is real punishment. The western company that sells deadly products - nothing happens - court battles for years - appeals - and then some sort of fine - which is usually a pittance. In China - they find you guilty and take the CEO around back shoot him in the head and bill the family. So if I get electrocuted because some putz President of the Chinese amp maker deliberately cheaps out and sells dangerous goods - I will at least have the pre-satisfaction to know that he'll be shot. In the US - nothing. Zero zilch nada - they get a fine and will make the fine back by not paying their oversees slave labour force for a couple of weeks.
I never liked the idea of corporations being called people - you can shoot people, you can lock a person up and seize all their assets when they do wrong.
I'm not too concerned for the owner's of the companies.
My concern is for getting genuine components if the product is advertised as having certain brands of high-end parts.
And more importantly, being able to get the thing serviced in a timely manner if it breaks. In other words, the product needs to have good representation in the states with a strong network of dealers who can step up.
The plight of Raysonic owners keeps coming to mind, and they were at least thought be reputable.
This is a very good point. I'd also factor in resale value. Sure the price may be lower BUT if when you go to sell it you get far less money than the more expensive "known" commodity then you don't come out ahead.
I generally prefer to deal with dealers who have on site repair facilities and know how to fix the stuff they sell. I just bought a turntable (posted on vinyl asylum) and the dealer accidentally forgot to put the transit screw in (bought a static display model) and being a suspended chassis it came loose. The guy came out 2 days later to my place - took the entire turntable apart - put the screws back in to attach the chassis - refitted the arm board and adjusted the arm and cartridge all in less than 15 minutes.
The dealer in BC (Soundshounds) can fix any brands including restoration of old ESLs. I mean if the dealer can't fix anything why not just buy the things over the internet? Part of the reason to pay dealer mark-up is for "dealer service" and that service to me is not just let me listen to something and take the credit card - it is the ability to repair the stuff or at the very least handle the repair work in some manner and deal with the manufacturers.
If Soundshounds sold Raysonic (which were smart enough not to) they would be able to repair any problem that came up so customers would not be S.O.L.
Line Magnetic in the US is imported by the Shindo and LeBan importer "Tone Imports" so it's probably a much safer buy in that respect. John DeVore is also confident enough in them to use the amps to demonstrate his gear at Audio Shows.
... An American company would never ever pass something off for something else.... Or rip consumers off blind.
Nope, never happen.
Smile
Sox
My point is that it is more likely to happen with Chinese made goods with little chance of recourse and remedy to the buyer.
... Though you did mention eBay.
On this site there seems to be a lot of Americans whinging and bitching about other Americans when buying goods off eBay & Audigon etc... not to mention the perpetual bitching about eBay itself and PayPal!
I seem to remember Lexicon putting a Oppo into a box and adding something like $3k extra for the nice box.
As you have stated elsewhere there are American companies you would not buy from. I assume you came to your opinion through a little research and experience. It is not really hard to apply the same methodology when dealing with Manufacturers from other countries. Of course it helps if one doesn't already have a fixed opinion/belief about the said country.
I find it a bit ironic when many American companies trade on the their brand name but their product is either made in China or full of Chinese made components. But that is just me.
Enjoy the rest of your weekend.
Cheers.
Smile
Sox
NT
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