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I got this link from PDL because I do not peruse the Atlantic.
Yes, I've noticed that streaming is very popular now.
I guess not everyone wants to be a music collector.
Follow Ups:
I think the issue is simpler - John is correct that music literacy is lower but you can't blame the buying or music listening public for this - you can phone your state and provincial representatives and ask them why they spend zero dollars on music and art but millions and millions of dollars on a football coach at a high school. The choice is society's to make and society chose, what I consider, poorly. I, indeed, had to play catch-up and still have to catch-up because I graduated in 1992 and that was when many schools were dumping music programs - I was fortunate enough to play the oboe. Kids in those schools might, MAYBE, be fortunate enough to get some guitar lessons. And none of them will take the course if they have to play Mozart on guitar - they want to play Metallica or Iron Maiden - (and that wouldn't be so bad actually).
Music sales versus population growth as a percentage would be more interesting to me. Back in the day before Pac Man and Space Invaders and VHS there was simply a lot less competition for what you could do and spend your cash on.
With each competing alternate entertainment - IF one has interests beyond listening to music then those alternate competing technologies take time. So if one listened to 5 hours of music a day - TV may take and hour. Home DVD and Blu Ray are pretty impressive - a surround sound rig - the 5 hours of listening to music may drop to 2 hours with a movie in there. The money that went to the music may now be going to a Blu-ray.
TV has also gotten considerably more sophisticated with various HBO efforts like Breaking Bad which can compete with or better numerous films. Takes away time.
I bought a PS3 for watching movies - I then made the mistake of buying Dragon Age. I played D&D as a kid and thought this might be fun - well yes - you can spend a horrendous amount of hours on these things and the stories are often as or more sophisticated that any film - including Lord of the Rings. With good sound quality and major actors doing the voice work. This sucks even more time and the average age of these PS3, XBOX game players is over 35. I play just a little bit but I could easily see such things enveloping people's time.
And the games are expensive and takes people's money.
Illegal Downloading culture: Young people have X dollars - they will spend it on the PS3 game that is difficult to steal and they will download the music for "free." Stopping The Pirate Bay is just a pointless exercise since 1 day later three other sights popped up that were just as good - including one called "the old pirate bay." This fight will be as successful as the war on drugs.
The top 1% of artists make the bulk of the money - I love all these top 1% issues. Well the people with money want to buy T-Pain, Justin Beiber, Lady Gaga and they don't want to buy 60 year olds playing a trumpet. Chances are it will sound dreadful on a $1 iPod headphone on top of being music they care or know nothing about.
Students I teach in Hong Kong (a generally more musically literate culture) require lyrics. If you listen to any classical composer and you don't know any of the history about the piece then you have no way to understand what story is being told. There is no baseline information.
A pop song - hell you just have to watch the Lady Gaga Paparazzi video and even without English you can sort of figure out the story. MTV did that.
Mind you as an English teacher this is great music - highly repetitive lyrics, beats and usually SIMPLE English.
And being from the 80s (the laughed at music generation at the time) 80s music is looking pretty darn good so it's nice that the kids here generally like the stuff cause I can't stomach Beiber.
Classical or Jazz I tried but it failed. Perhaps the music teacher here has better results.
Besides you can listen to ENTIRE albums for free on youtube!
I showed the students one of the first three albums on CD I ever bought pictured above and the students actually like it - quite a bit. Which I find amusing. But jeez when I listen to most of what is on the radio now - Roxette is looking a LOT better now than they did at the time they were popular. Overproduced perhaps being the knock against them seems like a mild complaint compared to what is out now.
Bridging the gap to rock or classical or jazz is a bridge too far without some actual reference points to history. Beethoven's the man - if anyone can get them into classical I would bet Beethoven is the guy to do it (outside of perhaps movie composers like John Williams). Then you need a playback system to be able to let them HEAR the nuance - a boom boom track is easy on cheap speakers boom boxes.
I personally think that by gauging how many are listening (getting) to what by only looking at sales / stream demos is like assuming you know the worlds food preferences are by looking at what sells in only McDonald's.
Kind of an ironic comparison IMO. Id guess many feel the two represent the level of quality consumed by their audience LOL....
Just like the many people who prepair their own food. Grow it. Shop ma and pa deli. Shop for and consume mainly grocer goods. How do you accurately measure and gauge their habbits???
Now Im not so foolish to miss the matter that folks streaming and eating at McDrek make up a large chunk of the population. But they are not the be all and end all of what to base our perceptions of.
As I mentioned below. I think the time we live in is VERY misunderstood and not measured near as well as the powers that be like to think they are doing. How is it even possible to get an accurate measurement of all the folks with self created/acquired digital music collections???? In the crap economy the world is living in, how is not reasonable to assume many are building their library this way?
And what about the demo of people who listen to music, EVEN ON A COMPUTER, and DONT have an internet connection??? Guess what, they exist. There was a HILARIOUS foot in mouth microsoft moment when during an Xbox ONE press conference, when asked by an audience member, what is MS position on folks who dont have a net connection? This for those who dont know was when it was passed around ONE would require a net connection to function properly and or be rendered inoperable. He answered, we already have a product for that. Its called the 360. Well after that insensitive gaff they pulled back the requirement.
Yup believe it or not folks, some still dont live and die on the Internet. Begs the question who the bigger fool is...
I personally find subject of art (music whatever you wish to see it as) as the one thing I dont mind seeing being acquired by whatever means depending on ones situation. I cant help but think many of the long gone music great would have no issue with their work being acquired by whatever means and enjoyed, inspiring maybe the next Miles Davis, Hendrix, Gov Mule... whatever. Lord knows most of these folks came from meager conditions.
While I hate what so many gov programs have done to the population. I cant help but think, maybe if some of them stumbled upon Kind of Blue, Dust my Broom, Gimme Shelter... whatever, they might react differently and take interest in such music and possibly create it. Its a real cultural problem when one looks at demos of mainstream for so many reason.
This is one of things I find myself really torn with. What constitutes art. I just hate the idea I find myself seeing crap like this linked video here and wondering if the world would be better without it. Yea I know... It was one of the biggest hits last summer amongst the youth. Judge for yourself its artistic merit. When one is only exposed to music like this, is it really their fault they havnt found or taken interest in the other options the world has to offer??? Part of why Im hoping technology might do some good for raising the bar of is often seen in mainstream.
Yup you have to wonder if the PC police of this messed up county would still preach the same way if they spent some time listening to this stuff and living this way.... jezz....
Artistic merit is difficult to pin down because pop/rock music is story telling based through lyrics. It's basically poetry with musical backing. Classical instrumental music is not. You have no idea what any given piece of classical music is about UNLESS someone tells you what it is about.
You can't listen to Beethoven's 9th and in a vacuum and understand what story he is telling - you need a parent or music teacher or historian or book to tell you what relevant piece of history these people were talking about - including opera (unless you can understand Italian, French or German).
And without any education in school - how is any kid going to learn about any of those forms of music. Maybe if people spent $10,000 on a stereo instead of $200,000 they could donate the difference to their local schools and ensure that classes in music appreciation are taught to school children (including inner city children) rather than complain and whine that Lady Gaga outsells all classical music (and probably all Jazz Music) by every label worldwide COMBINED. I get that people hate paying taxes but it doesn't stop 50 wealthy top .001% audiophiles from building a music program in their city or state schools - parents in the bottom 99.9% would certainly not complain about the generosity and then these guys could be sure the money they;re donating is actually going where it is supposed to go rather than red tape bureaucracy.
But to your point about the rap video - how is all that different than Bob Dylan. Musicians wanted to fight the system (government) going into Vietnam and are generally anti-war wherever possible. They wrote songs about it. A lot of rap is doing the same thing - people angry at their situation, opportunities, racism, and perhaps the cards they are dealt simply being the wrong color at the wrong time in the wrong place.
As a white guy the only thing I can do is empathize with what it must be like to be a black kid growing up in a poor neighborhood with bleak options. And their lyrics often reflect those issues. I've often wondered if the continuous pounding bass drum in rap music is supposed to reflect bullets continually flying.
All of these lyric based forms of music speak to current generations. A queen poisoning her king to take the throne doesn't speak to them in any way shape or form so some of the opera's even if you translate them to English come across as laughable. Heck most of them I'd rather not know because I can't listen to much of Opera once I know how completely ridiculous the story is.
Of course not all poetry is good in music so you could argue it fails as poetry and storytelling. Leonard Cohen is a pretty darn good poet but his voice is well charitably ok. Others can sing him under the table but have less to say.
While to some small extent I think we show SOME of our political / social views. Ive no wish to turn this into a water cooler style debate. However I feel the social end plays a strong role.
Yes classical is up for interpretation for its inner meaning. But ANYONE can possibly enjoy it and have their own unique interpretation to the craftsman's feelings and their own. With vocal music there isnt anywhere near the level of ambiguity. IMO Plus with pure instrumental music its just fine to enjoy it on a passive level and not worry about deeper meaning or having the music challenge some intellectual level. Thats totally fine by me if the listener wishes to enjoy it on some lesser a level than some feel necessary with certain music.
Your take on the 1% is just one version of how things could play out. Personally I see FAR more in common with the self serving, careless, winner take all and F the rest some see in the 1% and the depictions alluded to in this rap song and so many others. Never before has a genre of music celebrated, promoted and possibly inspired the often destitute of the world to behave in as bad and or IMO even worse than the 1% they may view as their oppressor and or enemy. Nor do I see what it would accomplish if acted upon in extreme measures. That classic two wrongs dont make a right really comes into play. Im no pacifist, but if this kind of defience is the best some can come up with. Wow...
Also I can see VERY little to no resemblance with this rap song and so many others, with the kind of lyrics found in Dylan or Cohen. IMO little is left to the listener for interpretation in this song. I loved John C poking a jab at Dylan's lyrics in Dewey Cox. It pokes fun at how open ended and often silly they are. Lots of poetry like music can fall into this realm. Not to say all rap is played strait with no inner meaning. But much of it sadly often is. And its audience often knows darn well what they are getting at in it.
Ive always been bummed the likes of old school Public Enemy never caught on in the mainstream. Chuck D hated this one dimension rap and wanted rap listeners to see the big picture and work towards a better tomorrow for itself. A far cry from what, on the hole, it turned into as time went on. Again that notion by some of the 1%. F the world, as long as I got whats mine and step on anyone in my way no matter their intentions.
This could go on and on with what rap is derived from and what the outcome of it is. I can only speak for myself and some personal friends in saying, the similarities between Dylan and Cohen in that vid I posted allude me overall.
I sincerely respect your profession as a teacher. Lord knows here in the states their often under paid (especially considering the expectations and risk in some places), unappreciated and often misunderstood. Must be nice in Hong Kong where students are not allowed to turn the class into a circus, challenge the teacher to a physical fight knowing they will be fired more often than not if they so much as vocally and or physically defend themselves. We back in the states once took education seriously like that. Id put my life on the line if one showed the famous phone vids of what goes on in todays classrooms in places and showed it to any teacher from say 25+ years earlier (and they actually believed you) they'd have never entered the profession. Its a real shame and only getting bigger.
Where Im going with that observation is Im not totally convinced if large sums of money being dumped into the schools here would turn the ship. No doubt it would help to some extent. But just focusing on kids who likly wont be exposed to the other genres and complexity in music. Just showing them the music and attempting to better explain it in the schools... Boy Im not sure it would ever take off on a large scale in the slightest. To be honest this is where Ill leave it at, some of this countries policies would also need to change to allow the better education in schools have much effect. Also IMO more and more young folks do their real learning outside schools in many cases. This is where Im hoping tech might pick up some slack in general exposure. Nowadays, just as the TV raised many kids years ago (for better or worse in cases), I see the net doing the same. No doubt this could better or worsen a bad situation. But the groups of open minded and or confident kids might have a chance at a better life. No way many will experience it in schools here nor at home. So maybe some boring day they stumble on a Elmore James tune via the net and it sparks something in them. Yea Im reaching here but Im positive it happens to some extent. Did for me in my ventures as a younger man.
BTW sorry but I dont see Cohen as any kind of vocal slouch. Then and now there are FAR worse. His big hit Susan sounds soothing to me. To each his own. Plus you take autotune away from the pop stars of today and they might sound like Tom Waits. Who I would still take over much of todays pop LOL...
Okay so I actually bothered to look up the song's lyrics because listening to it was headache inducing after 20 seconds. It reminds me a bit of a Clockwork Orange with an alien street gang language. What I can tell from the lyrics it's about living for today and only trusting your friends/gang because"I said that I'm a ride for my motherf$&ing N__"
Most likely I'm a die with my finger on the trigger
I been grinding outside, all day with my N
And I ain't going in, unless I'm with my N
You and I aren't the target audience clearly but it's a reflection of what is going on in society.
The top 1% or top .01% may at some point be likened to Marie Antoinette - when the separation of wealth becomes unstable (which it may very well become) then there will be an internal war - the trick for the rich is to keep the serfs passive and happy "enough" to not burn down your house and shop the wife's head off. There was a fellow in a Bently or Rolls a week back who was shot in the head perhaps just because he owned a nice car. Just sitting in a parking spot and gets shot in the head.
There can be debates on other forums on the solutions to these problems and no doubt political parties have been arguing for years - it would probably be smart to find a middle ground that accomplishes both the John Rawls notion of creating a fair society around the "veil of ignorance" when creating things like tax systems or criminal justice systems. The system is not fair and equal in the way people are defended or the punishments being handed down.
But we also need a system that doesn't make people leeches off tax dollars and who will work for a living (pick themselves up by their bootstraps). A helping hand yes, but not to gullible levels.
Basically we need taxes to be spent well - a less leaky bucket. I hate terms like "small government" - I'd rather people argue for a government the right size to do the job properly. If a big government worked well I'd have no issue with - like it audio - I have no problem paying for a $5,000 turntable (Big Government) if I can hear how stupefyingly great it is when compared to a a $500 turntable (small government). It's when the $5k turntable isn't performing better than the $500 turntable where I get annoyed. 10 times the money without superior results.
HAH - the moderators get an audio analogy at least :)
I want independent government oversights on businesses who continually prove time and time again that they choose profit over public and environmental safety - they WILL NOT oversee themselves. On the other hand private business could do a far better job of some government tasks where they could at the very least go into some sort of partnership arrangement. But that's for another forum. Business tends to be good at streamlining to save time and money - it's a strength of competent business and it might be wise for governments to hire such businesses to do the job.But there is always conflict of interest - Coke is willing to help pay for a school's books and computers BUT they insist on putting pop machines in the school AND place a gag order on teachers so that no teacher is allowed to say that Coke is bad for a kid's health or various environmentally damaging things they do in various countries. This is a conflict of interest. There has to be foundational structures in a society that are independent from business reach and those structures can't be made to be profitable in most cases. Some things need to be socialized but within a capitalist model. Nothing wrong with that - it's still 80% capitalist. Police/Fire/Education/Medical/Roads/Military/libraries/forest and criminal justice and parks/environmental safety/ food/water/drug/road/air safety under the purview of government - pretty much everything else can be open to businesses to run.
I'm Canadian but I'm not the least bit against two tier systems - taxes pay for universal medical - okay help your fellow man when he's sick - it's just the right thing to do - but if I have bags of money I don;t want to wait in line. The guy with the money can opt for the second tier and get the extra service immediately. You gots the money you can get the service. You can actually do both - you don;t have to have one or the other - you want a CD player AND a turntable - buy em both. Don;t have to just live with one.
Just like a restaurant - the poor guy can take the family to McDonalds and the rich guy can fly his family to Gordon Ramsey's home and have dinner. Both exist - if your poor - sorry you don't get the BEST food or service or the BEST doctor or hospital BUT you do get your meal and you do get your life saved.
Note: I wasn't comparing the rap video as being on par artistically with Cohen or Dylan - there's good art and bad art although that is somewhat a "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" notion. Nearly 106 million hits indicates to me that people like the music or they agree with the lyrics or both. If 106 million people presumably all with guns being in the US walk over the The Walton estate - that would pretty much ends Walmart. Not that that would be any loss since tax payers are keeping the business afloat with all the subsidies being paid to employees via food stamps. It's easy to be number one when society is holding Walmart's bootstraps up.
Autotune is largely a way to reduce the number of takes and time spent in a recording studio - there were various noise shapers and processing before autotune to doctor up recordings. It doesn't mean the artist can't sing. Sarah McLachlan has been auto-tune and I have heard sing without a mic live with no instruments, machines from a distance of 20 feet. She can sing - so can Celine Dion so can Jackson Browne - granted these are three examples who were singing and producing albums before 1997 when autotune was invented. LOL - so perhaps that doesn't prove much. Still Lady Gaga has sung with and without it and she can sing well enough.
I completely agree with you on education - throwing money at it is not the solution - I would say it is a needed solution but without changing educational culture in the west money alone will do nothing. Teachers getting beaten up (saw the video) is a tip of it. I taught in Canada for a few years and I could write a book on what a disaster it has become and it's likely worse in inner city US school. The mere fact that there needs to be metal detectors and police in the school is kind of telling.
School is supposed to be a safe learning environment with a bit of fun thrown in and schools now look like prisons and probably not all that much safer.
Hong Kong is following the west - and the schools here are beginning to crumble as a result. Discipline is cracking - we have kids wandering out of class, stealing, swearing at teachers, Triad members etc. But they band students into 3 levels. At the end of elementary the kids take exams and based on the results they apply to various high schools. Band 1 schools only take the best students - band 3 take the worst. If a band 3 kid works hard he/she can apply to change schools so they do have a second/third chance to get on track. All students at all schools wear uniforms. Their hair can't be colored and their hair has to be symmetrical - no half shaved heads, no tattoos, no piercings, no make-up and their shoes must be black (except for gym). They line up and are walked to class - they rise and say good morning teacher. At the end they say Goodbye teacher.
They also pay teachers rather well compared to the west. As a fifth year teacher here I earn more than a 10 year principal in Canada. And Canada generally pays a fair bit more than US teachers.
Edits: 01/30/15 01/30/15
Im sorry but when I read your comparison of My Nig to Kubrick's Orange (brilliant film IMO and many others) I immediately starting cracking up. Not at you, but my brain went to a moment when Louis CK was tearing apart a horrible small time movie on a show I love. You may or may not find it funny. Think of it as a MST3K episode done in a hard R fashion. Very witty in its own way IMO.
Go to 12 min to hear the Clockwork comparison and response.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_i9WUHK_gA
Sorry but I too feel comparing My Nig to Clockwork is quite a stretch. Theres many other pack mentality and communication in film one could compare it to. Also Kubrick was trying to show the damage that life style did to its surroundings and what fostered its creation (Alex's abuse) and how two wrongs failed to cancel themselves. Also how forced conditioning (programming Alex) fails in addition (hey PC police, watch this film). Wrongs are just plain wrongs. That was one of the many messages in the film.
You really appear to be a bright guy to me. So please dont think in our exchange Im trying to demean or fail to take you seriously.
Going off the Clockwork comparison, I dont in any way feel some Marie Antoinette outcome is justified or going to be productive in some crazy attempt. The idea sewing rats into the mouths of the wealthy of the nation will accomplish anything worthy today is sad.
I once again cant help but see more in common with the top 1% and bottom 10%. They both SOMETIMES are simply taking advantage of and making the most for their benefit in a system that is geared from its conception to be flawed and exploited.
Im a kind of a Milton Freedman guy myself. More than anything, so much of what I see around me is the result of a HORRIBLY bastardized free market / capitalistic system. Man could Milton spell it out and predict the failures which would ensue. What we are seeing in the 1% could never have happened if true free market capitalism was really happening.
And this house of cards is going to collapse from the incestuous relationship between the Fed and banks. At least in my neck of the woods.
Being you appear to be a Kubrick fan and find finance interesting youd probably like one of favorite film annalists Rob Ager
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoWZEwedPkc
In this breakdown he talks about how Kubrick feared power and the collapse of the gold standard system. I could recommend his videos more for a good mental workout.
BTW walmart does in fact pay allot of tax money. How much they should is up to each's own. Also those very people who work for WM you talk about being subsidized by tax money (which I do agree on) are infact paying into the very tax pool with every paycheck. The whole tax subsidy and SSI is a pyramid scheme in mine and many others view. Its outspending itself at speeds never before seen.
One fellow who became a hero to me is Peter Schiff. He was the guy who went down to the occupy wall street movement with a sign, I am the 1% lets talk. Pretty bold move on his part. And IMO he did a very honest and respectable job trying to explain things to these kids and empathize in his way and give his take on why things are $ falling apart. To each their own but this guy sounds like no fool and his story speaks to this. I get the impression he is really speaking from the heart and from his own experiences. Take from him what you will.
Bringing all this back to audio LOL oh boy.... I really do feel for the most of the poor and find mainstream music is gauged and influenced by all we just discussed. And with all I mentioned above and whats been said, this is why I feel seeing folks come by music in nearly any way is fine by me. I really do hope some of the folks, be it poor and or mainstream on the whole, they find some music we find great by chance of any kind. I dont see counting on and hoping school, gov and their parents are going to be much of a good bet in many cases. Im really hoping the with tech and some weird form of osmosis they will come across some of it and have some kind of spark fire within them. Its quite a reach but heck, Ill let it be there and hope enough catch onto it. I see it happening all the time. In seeing that SOOOO many of the video's which go viral are often of a positive nature, I think its a really possible chance. But who knows.
Oh gosh, getting too late again replying to you man. Why must we be in opposite time zones :)
All the best. Glad your doing your thing and earning well teaching. If only that was more common all over the place.
Thanks for the video on Kubrick - as a fan I found that fascinating and had not seen that before. Clockwork is one of my top 10 films - but the Shining might deserve another look now - Although I always liked the Shining in my top 20 horror flicks.
Schiff makes some good points - not sure that people screaming at each other in the street is effective debate. His point about about creating jobs and working for .30 on the dollar is somewhat suspect. Plenty of people choose careers that pay .30 on the dollar of a different but equally doable career. I chose to teach rather than stay in accounting - teachers make effectively .30 on the dollar of a good accountant or lawyer. It's the mindset difference that he perhaps doesn't relate to. But as total tax dollars collected goes the wealthy do pay more in taxes - indeed, the poor pay nearly nothing because they make nothing.
Walmart and target don't do themselves well in public relations - in Canada Target closed nearly 100 stores and laid off 70,000 people or something - the combined severance to the employees was less than the CEO who made 10s of millions for effectively being an incompetent failure of a CEO. Some say CEO's are worth the money - really for being an abysmal hack? I'd gladly be an abysmal hack for $500k and let target save 19+ million!
Schiff was correct about private profits and socialized losses - for a country so steeped in capitalism I was rather stunned with bailing out American car companies and banks - the people were left picking companies out of their own money - and BOTH political parties were for it in case some revisionist history comes along to blame the other guy.
Creating jobs and trickle down don't work because it assumes that there is trickle down. Even Schiff admits he won't work for .30 on the dollar - reading between the lines that means when times are tough the employees are the ones who will pick up the slack - not HIM. In lean times one must work for less - but not HIM. So when inflation is 5% and the employees should get a 5% pay increase - if his salary is affected then nope - the raise will be 2% for the employee and the rest to HIM.
When this happens for 25 years we now see managers and CEOs dwarfing employees - where it may have been 4-1 it is now 4000 to 1 or 40,000 to 1. But the uber wealthy aren't injecting the money into the economy. Opening a plant in Wenzhou China doesn't inject money into America - it doesn't give people a job to be able to buy the crap the CEO is selling. Sure the prices come down - they have to come down - no one in America can afford to buy anything. Gradually it snowballs.
The jobs that are available in big numbers like picking fruit - no one wants those jobs - America essentially has a slave labour force in Mexicans and other illegal immigrants doing the work no one else will do. And of course - you can pay them $1 a day and rape their women and if they say anything they will be under the threat of deportation. PS it is happening in Canada as well so don't take this as anti-American - it's not it's just what is happening.
People don;t trust the government to fix the problem but if the alternative is to trust Walmart or Haliburton, or big oil or Tobacco or any corporation ruled by profit then we gotta go back to government. And I have traveled and lived in generally socialized countries and it's better for 99% of the population - America may be better for the top 1% but people have to figure out that there is only 1 person in a 100 that is going to make it - and if you're a gambling man playing the odds - it's probably better to make it better for the 99% than the 1% because you know there are billionaires in Socialist states who have billions after taxes - it's harder to make it yes - but it's also harder to be crushed under the wheels. Good ole Willy Loman is the prime example of a bad salesman trying for the dream when Biff probably had it right all along. The problem isn't even with the average $500k earner anyway because they do spend.
The problem is more at the uber .01% anyway. The billionaire's not the millionaire's. These guys just aren't putting enough money into the economy - as this billionaire notes - he can't spend enough and as a result this money is basically the equivalent of artery clogging. Money needs to flow to keep the system working not build up and sit someplace.
Thanks much for checking out those vids. So glad you enjoyed em. Well most of em, O&A is a very much acquired taste (or never). I enjoy edgy humor. I find the world rather edgy to say the least so enjoy a good laugh on that level.
Even if you may not see eye to eye on the econ of the world around us. On an intellectual and thought provoking level, folks can enjoy debating and examining the arts. I cannot recommend Rob Ager's videos enough. Ive yet to find one of his lacking in any way what so ever. He has done MANY on Kubric. And Clockwork is one of his favs also. A wonderful 2+ hr eye opener is his The Myth Of Artificial Intelligence. Brings of great points I always suspected.
I feel our takes on econs are simply not going to be effectively debated here. And in all honesty I dont care to. I get the impression your hearts in the right place with your stance. Allot of folks in the left I find far more cemented in ignorance and or self serving. I dont in the least get that impression from yourself. In a nut shell I simply feel, at this point in time, especially to force it on the population as a whole here. It would be like, as the gun folks say and I agree with, it would be like putting toothpaste back in the bottle. Nor do I feel it would be sustainable and productive to the country.
A few brief counterpoints.
Glad you liked Schiff. His podcast's were great. Sad he hung it up. But the PC police are REALLY vicious and I have a hunch it may have played a part in it. If they dont like what they hear. They lynch em. Oh the irony...
But on the notion of his I wont work for .30 on the dollar. You seem to hold it against him for taking that stance. Try and put that into perspective. Say he really did OK'd his working for .30 on his companies earned dollar. Does that mean his employees should now be expected to work for say .05 on the dollar? And thats often being generous in some cases. Now Im not trying to justify the earned income inequality within companies. But really try and stop to think about this. Schiff really did start and build up his company. He was no trust fund or family heir into it. At what point is his earning .30 going to be proportionally fair to say the janitor or secretary? Let alone his brokers which he pays fairly and is a firm believer in you get a fair percentage of your produced earnings. For a great podcast of his, find the one where he talks about how at Myrill Lynch (I think, may not have been, its been a while) which has a black CEO, it was sued my a collective black class action suit in which it was alleged black brokers were collectively earning less than their white counter parts. Well, thats a position where ones earnings are simply based on total sales. No investment firm is going to pay their good earners less no matter the race or reason. Its simply counter productive to all in involved. So now its the companies fault that certain investors wish to work with a white counter part. Or in some cases simply perform better. Well as Schiff rightly pointed out, now all that class action suit did was unjustly reward a group of black brokers. And lessen the chance that the company will look as seriously into a future wouldbe black broker as now it has to worry if that black broker cant perform as well as a white broker for whatever the reason, the company will be blamed for it and punished. This happens all the time on so many levels and at different places. And its not something isolated to Blacks, whites, women, gays, trans, whatever... These bases law suits complaining of fairness, sadly in todays day and age often do the very opposite of what such suits claim to be working to better.
And of course I and I guarantee you Schiff would agree with you that CEOs of poor and or failing companies should not be earning such crazy pay. It makes no business or fairness sense. Just seeing how folks were locked out of pulling their investments from Enron before the powers that be were done milking it for all they could and left the wreckage for the investors who built these fortunes. That is pure and plain HORSESH*T! And as Schiff points out, its gov complacency and complicate entanglement between themselves and these big corps. THIS IS NOT PURE FREEMARKET CAPITALISM!!! If it were, a poorly performing company would not, and could not pay its board or the CEO such earnings. This is a bastardised system that should have never come to be.
Again, if one hears Im a believer in Milton Freedman that should be all you need to know. I wont insult you by asking if your familiar with him and his beliefs. You mention being in accounting. So Im sure your more than familiar with the wise old man. He nailed it all. Not to say some of his remarks or stances didnt age well. But on the whole that man was spot on IMO. Real shame it didnt prevail overall here in what should have been the poster child and mecca for freemark econ. Overall I see China doing it better. Not perfect or even fair in its entirety. But they also dont claim to be a capitalistic system in its pure form. And as I blame here, over there the gov is standing in the way of the people. But my god look no further to see sh*t get done in a free flowing system. Anyone here in the states would blush with embarrassment at what could have been.
And Im sorry but Im of the camp that a socialistic econ simply doesnt foster progression in business, tech, innovation and opportunity for any and all. Its simply not going to happen on anywhere near the levels that could. And nevermind the fact that other countries, look no further than YOUR own back yard and the surrounding countries, to pick up the slack we in the states would leave behind should it happen.
For a laugh I would love to see the portion of the gov subsidies babies here in the states be forced into an actual socialism system like cuba here. OMG when they actually cant afford those 60" tvs with an all option cable package, smart phones with badass data plans, an SUV so on, while on a gov income. Id be real curious if theyd agree with you that its a better life. Oh if our Fd up gov assistance programs were handled the way they were intended. All you teachers here in the states sure would have a fighting chance at getting something done. Not that all of them can or try to abuse it this way. But youd better believe its no 10% of abuse as some stat folks like to paint the problem as being. I know first hand. As I have friends from all walks of life and income. Ive seen so many single moms in 4 bedroom 2 story houses all funded by HUD and other gov programs with food and util paid for by the tax payer. Id love to see happen in Cuba LOL.
Lastly in a nut shell. I feel allot of the outrage at corp abuse and gaps in pay I feel, as you point out, by looking at the .01% of the 1%. And IMO that gap is wrong in many cases. As many point out, the coke bros and Walmart heirs. It is almost incomprehensible that so much wealth could be concentrated. But at the end of the day one has to acknowledge that they themselves and their company didnt solely buy the products that make them rich. Ill always have an easier time getting mad at the medical industry and or INS companies as its not much of a choice to buy those products. But as south park brilliantly showcases in their walmart episode, we ultimately built these empires. So at the end of the day are your really mad at walmart, or the jerks of the local cities who turned their back on their local ma and pa shops throughout the 80-90s and allowed WM to become the monster they are today???? Sorry I just dont feel that much sympathy for the average angry american as I and my fellow folks allowed this mess to take place under our own watch. As long as we had prime time TV, fastfood and a sense we could slum through our day unharmed at our own jobs, who care. We reaped what we sewed here. And until folks in this country pays attention to politics and holds our con artists politicians accountable, it simply wont change.
Ive always felt its sad, as several politicians famously joke about. You dont need to pass an IQ test to be a politician. Now more than ever that needs to change. I seriously believe smart people are a safer bet to run things. And I believe they better understand the big picture of we are all stuck on this rock together. And should give a damn what we leave for out children to live with.
One last thing. I dont feel in the slightest extent of my imagination we treat illegal immigrants poorly here. If you know of another country who treats KNOWN illegal let alone the unknown ones. Better than we do, Id sure love to see it. Because I sure as heck dont know of any to so foolishly handle this epidemic here. BTW if they are no longer illegal immigrants. Years ago I knew of and had allot of friends who were unlicensed pharmacists. Rolls eyes....
Allright. Far too late again. And I clearly should digress into more political talk. Albeit if really has been fun and enlightening having the chance to dialog with you. Again you seem like a real bright guy with good intentions. Id thinks we would really get along in real life and enjoy allot of similar movies and music. We may see different on econ and politics but WHO CARES. Last I checked we arnt running any country or small gov.
Again please check out more Collative Learning vids. I never bore of seeing them. Just such great eye openers and thought provokers.
Too tired to proof read this post. Been a long day here. So forgive any grammatical errors I produce above the norm ;)
Let me start by saying that I think Schiff makes more sense than not and unfortunately the political spectrum has devolved into our team versus your team and with everyone screaming no one objectively looks at the facts. I'll say I'm a liberal but I see a lot of liberals who are supposed to be about free speech real fast to try and shut down the right wing view. Apparently this is going on at universities which are predominately left wing institutions. Free speech is supposed to be about allowing speech you're not comfortable with hearing.
And both sides try to lump the other side into a box.
I recently posted on the film forum that I recently finished watching the 7 seasons of the West Wing - as a lefty I was kind of thinking to myself - damn I would marry Ainsley and I'd probably vote for Vinnick (both Republicans). Granted they are likely left wing envissionings of good Republicans but the point is that there is probably a lot of ground that COULD be covered and agreed to and even having a dinner or drink with the opposition without wanting them to get run-over.
First - if you start a business from nothing grow the business to a juggernaught have the sense to know that you grew it with the help of your employees. And you're right the guy should not have to pay .70 on the dollar in taxes. Schiff pointed out that if the tax started say at $2million what's to stop him from closing and lay on a beach? And indeed, he's already got his millions so why kill himself for .30 on the dollar.
He's right to tell the crowd not to lump the top 1% into one general group. And he and the crowd did recognize common enemies. Indeed, if the common enemy were thwarted it would probably solve the issue at least in a very big way.
And as a teacher who is not a total lefty - well some kids and some adults are bone lazy and using an analogy in a classroom - we often put the low kid with the bright kid - the theory being the bright kid's work habits might rub off on the lazy kid - but usually the lazy kid rides the bright high effort kid to a passing group mark. I'm sure we've all seen it ourselves when we were in school. Little Michelle O. does 95% of the work and Sarah P. may or may not read the Cliff Notes and does 5% (draw a picture).
My dad who was semi-opposed to unions noted that companies generally deserved the unions that they got. The worse and hard nosed the union - was likely spawned by dictatorial companies. The middle class is better with them. Note I'm not saying I like them but America is kind of funny - a democracy to choose the leader of the company but then take in the rear working for at-will bosses who have all sorts of power over your personal life - drug testing, trying to find out your politics, religion or sex life. And if any of those things they don't like you're out. But if employees try and form a union they're called a commie (by the league of extraordinary business owners).
I don't have a problem with big chains - Costco is generally said to be one of the good guys - does what Wal-mart does without having employees needing to work 16 hours a day at 3 jobs and then still have to apply for food stamps. They pay a liveable wage and provide benefits and I believe education grants. And they still make hundreds of millions in profits.
Socialism and capitalism aren't evil words - China is said to be Communist - LOL fat chance - Wenzhou China is the epitome of pure 100% capitalism. It;s more capitalist than any American can dream of - well almost since American companies are moving into Wenzhou in droves.
The words are labels that get thrown around to sling an attack on one while holding onto to dear life the other. Plenty of socialist (Finland, Sweden, Denmark etc) countries work and they work well and they're not broke and they beat America and Canada to a pulp on any number of parameters from education, to long life, to health and to touchy feely stuff like "happiness quotients" - I'd rather $50,000 and be happy than $5million and be miserable - realizing that a certain level of financial security is required for it not to be a continual stress. Some of those countries have figured out that the love of money is a root of evil and there's more to life than chasing dollars and buying Beemers.
Here in Hong Kong there is a staggered income tax - the first $10,000 you make is taxed at something like 5% and it maxes out at 17% (which I pay). So a billionaire will pay 17% tax and so will I. Generally it works.
Everyone here has an ID card and they can go to the doctor and pay $15US and will be looked after regardless of what it is you go in for - hangnail or car accident needing open heart surgery. $15 (granted this is $15 per day in the hospital).
This is ultra business arena - ultra capitalist and yet they can look after the least.
They do some dumb things here of course but I just wish that people can say - hey Canada does that well but it sucks at that - but Australia does that sucky thing really well so let's copy that. The collective intelligence of the planet you'd think would have put it all together or at least attempt it. But you already said it - you don't have to have to have an IQ test to be a politician. And that's the first problem.
I don't want bat crap crazy dimwits running the country, any country. I want the president to in most cases be the smartest guy in the room - I want the senate and congresspeople to be the best and brightest from their states. An IQ of 130+ should be a minimum and a team of psychologists to ensure that they're not sociopaths might be a good threshold. But dumb is popular and anti-science and anti-intellectual is what people seem to want - which explains Palin and Bush.
nt.
"The thought that life could be better is woven indelibly into our hearts and our brains" -Paul Simon
Maybe if we push alternative versions of mainstream music as not being uncool then we wont have any problems with music sales, and get rid of a lot of negative nancys who cry whenever a genre evolves we can have better music sales.
I haven't had a problem finding any new music on CD or vinyl. And with the internet more used vinyl, even fairly obscure stuff, is more readily available. And it seems, of course I could be wrong, that there's a far greater selection of audiophile recordings available than ever before.
I long ago detached my interests in music from the "industry" in general. Billboard, FM radio, the Grammy's and the industry in general has never really represented my interest in music.
So even if the industry is suffering poor sales I say good for them. I'm very much satisfied with my purchasing opportunities. In fact I think it's a golden age.
Give me rhythm or give me death!
Or, does it mean that our music is so good that we have given up on trying to keep and catalog it?
What, oh what does it all mean?
First time I saw her was during SB halftime show...I was like...crap, how the hell did she peddle this "muzak" for a bag of gold???
I'm not familiar with Katy Perrys' music, but I thought she was incredibly bad. It's been said before, the halftime show shouldn't be trying to pander to 14 yr-olds. That said, it's gotta be one of the toughest gigs of all time. They tried going 'ol' skool' with The Who one year and that was an epic fail. There's plenty of great musical acts out there but finding one that'll satisfy the spectrum of superbowl watchers, a 'popular' artist, is becoming harder and harder!
...music streaming strikes me as just another cloud based service. MS wants us to do "Office" in the cloud and Adobe CS forces us there so why not music (and other media) too.
To the average user, streaming appears to be the same as ownership (listen to what I want whenever I want) and the library is essentially infinitely large even if they choose to use only a small part of it. The only glitch is when you're not able to connect to the web, but there's lots of effort and $$ being expended to make that situation rare. Streaming also helps reduce piracy and gets us closer to the holy grail of big media: pay per play. There's something there for just about everybody. What's not to like?
Somebody's always watching me, that's what's not to like...
Edits: 01/29/15
Everybody likes "Somebody's Watching Me," but I like Rockwell's dance sensation, "Obscene Phone Caller" better. When I host parties, I play "Obscene Phone Caller," which is always a hit on a the dance floor.
The Audiophiles' DJ,
-Lummy The Loch Monster
...means you've voluntarily given up much of your privacy. Younger generations act as if privacy is highly overrated anyway ...and they're setting the future trends so best to get used to it.
I'll not join the pay per view crowd.
I don't care who thinks I am cool.
There is a lot of great new music.
I am very happy.
It does not bother me (much) that most people are idiots.
nt
Dman
Analog Junkie
As I just bought 9 cd's of these same two album's.
Hank Dog's, BareBack & Half Smile cd's
Fantastic, as each song is better than the last played.
Will give them away to my audio buddies as gifts.
I listened to them back to back, TWICE
Hi Bill,
Discovered Hank Dogs years ago. Great stuff!
If you don't become the ocean, you'll be seasick every day.
—Leonard Cohen
Not for nothing do they call it "Mass Culture." Streaming is more convenient than downloads, which were more convenient than CDs, which sounded better than cassettes but which were also more convenient than LPs.
The upshot though, is grimly amusing--at least to me.
I make the bold claim that in the 1950s and 1960s, when there were only three commercial TV networks (plus the fledgling "Educational TV" network), the average TV viewer had the opportunity to be exposed to a wider range of musical styles and genres than today's Wi-Fi generation, who can listen to the Lumineers sing "Hey, Ho" (Or is that, "Hey Ho!"?) on nearly everything they own except their electric toothbrush.
In the 1950s, there were live TV jazz specials with Miles Davis and with Gil Evans. And programs like The Bell Telephone Hour would feature violinists such as Elman and Menuhin. Jazz was not only the theme music of "Peter Gunn;" it was environmental music too--Gunn's girlfriend worked in a jazz bar. There was opera. Less choice in theory, but more diversity in fact.
So the executives at the major labels today consult with their soothsayers and read entrails and strive mightily to come up with a new hit band that will be... "Wait a minit! I know! Let's cross the Lumineers with Mumford & Son!"
Too much of the modern music business is about asking people who are not really musically sophisticated what they want to hear or what they like, and then trying to give them exactly that. In a business where the top 1% of artists get appx. 88% of the revenue, and where hits stay on the charts far longer than before, the rewards at the top are far too great to risk anything really new.
So I read the magazines like Mix and see the news stories on million-selling bands I have never heard of, and they for the most part are nearly identical in ethnicity, gender, age, body type, hairstyles, in wearing clothes that are too small, and in wearing asinine little hats--nearly all of them. Here are two examples:
This is NOT a cultural environment that will support a new Joni Mitchell, and the old Joni Mitchell could not have flourished to the extent she did, had things in the 1960s and 1970s been as they are today.
Today's media scene is not Bruce Springsteen's "57 Channels (and Nothin On)," but rather, "This streaming service has access to 400,000 tracks, but people want to hear fewer than 1/100th of 1% of them."
The real problem is, that for the art of music to thrive requires a lot of things, and one of those things is a discriminating audience--an audience that can tell the difference between Donny Osmond and Nick Drake (yes I am intentionally semi-undercutting my point in the interest of intellectual honesty--this is a fallen and imperfect world). Or at least can tell the difference between Joni Mitchell and Leslie Gore.
If the audience's expectation gets petrified into, at a concert we are going to hear only things that are like the playlists we ALREADY have on our smartphones, that removes a major incentive to artistic progress, and probably damages another major incentive, that of wanting to impress or one-up one's fellow artists (as was the case with the Beatles and the Beach Boys).
As shown by the kerfuffle at the Newport Folk Festival when Bob Dylan played an electric guitar, dragging an audience along as you choose a new path has always been challenging. But the cards are now stacked higher than ever in favor of artistic wheel-spinning in a familiar rut.
Who would have thought 30 years ago that technology, far from liberating music, would shackle it?
Ironic.
jm
we have no culture to carry on.our songs/lyrics today will never transcend like early r&b,rock,and folk.we are an empty shell...just look at our politics.look at the media.. "honey bobo" "duck dynasty"et. al. these are the new benchmarks folks..we are doomed.
jim buck
I was pumped to see netflix revive Arrested Development. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder but I found the show to be significantly wittier than 98% of sh*tcoms Ive had the misfortune of seeing recently. Point one for tech having a brain and an audience.
Now I fully realize theres plenty of crap on netflix but there is and always will be in any medium, old or new. Theres also greater access to good shows there too.
Also youtube. Im a huge fan of YT. And if one talks original content IMO its a mecca. And yes a mecca of crap too. But the amazing lectures, past and present. Music artists, again old and new. The ability for anyone to put themselves out there with nearly anything. Then possibly find an audience. Thats great IMO.
One other dimension that is rarely mentioned in these talks... Ever look at just what demo these polls are reflecting? Much of these sales and measured views are often that of very young / young folks. Thats good and well but I know I listen to FAR more than I did as a teen. And much different music at that. Its well known that the older folks get, they often "purchase" less music on the whole. I personally couldnt care less what some teen girl bought or streamed. What you and our folks dig is of far more interest. We are a small demo. Also, Id venture to guess many of us and others now in their 30s on up are unique in that, we are a new example of people who CAN become self sufficient in acquiring music. Right or wrong, I know many folks my age and older who ripped their library. Know of web access to places to GET music. Have friends pass their library on to them if asked. Again, right or wrong, it does make for a sizable amount of folks who wont measure on a grid but have and listen to allot of possibly great music. Not Iggy Azalea! I see this as a not so well understood and measurable demo that is skewing the way we see the mass audience.
Today I fell in love with a CD I picked up at a thrift a few days ago. George Winston - The Music of Vince Guarladi. Very well played and recorded album. Bought 2nd hand and listened privately by me. Guess that doesnt count on the mass audience spectrum. Reminds me of a great Bill Hicks line. "well you dont know our audience. I watch your show. Im a person. I am your audience!"
FTR I get where your coming from. I just think the cause and effect is a bit more complex. And MAYBE not as grim.
And Im suddenly treated by seeing the underused Michael Madsen in an homage to Quentin and Kill Bill. Then it gets worse and I see Paul Sorvino, quite a refined gentlemen, in what may also be a nod to Scorsese.
AHHHHHHH!!!!!! Why cant I just hate on the Iggy ;)
While Fancy just turns my stomach musically and the vid, you see stuff like this. Also, love it or hate it, Lady Gaga. Who can in real life play piano well enough, and sing for real. No auto-tune and dreck music for her to slum along with. Too bad that album with Tony didnt do better for her. Or Tony. May have started something with these pop icons.
I imagine many of us see these folks as entrepreneurs rather than artists. Not to state the obvious.
Are they really any worse than the corp exe giving the green light to their antics in music???
Anyway, theres good in some of em. Of a genuine art nature. Maybe they will start doing more projects of substance in the future. Again, start a movement of sorts.
BTW if your gonna give a nod to Madsen and QT (my least fav QT works are Kill Bill, tho entertaining) you have to give the shout out to Reservoir Dogs IMO. To each their own.
"This is NOT a cultural environment that will support a new Joni Mitchell, and the old Joni Mitchell could not have flourished to the extent she did, had things in the 1960s and 1970s been as they are today."
Are you sure you didn't mean "business environment"? I'm 60 and grew up in upstate New York. When I was 15, I had to hitchhike 35 miles to Ithaca to buy the "earlier" Joni Mitchell albums (or Dan Hicks, Muddy Waters, Jethro Tull, etc., etc.) I think maybe it was even the store in Ithaca where Michael Fremer supposedly used to work. My local stores didn't carry those artists.
There wasn't a cultural environment that supported these new artists when they came out back then either. Luckily for me, I had a friend whose big sister lived in Greenwich Village, and she would turn us on to different artists, but those artists were never part of mass culture in the beginning. Nobody heard of them, they had to be sought out. Joni didn't get lots of airplay until she jazzed it up with Court and Spark.
I think that there are current day artists--and I'm sure you know this--that exist today and receive about the same quantity of devotion from a culturally supportive group of "non-mass-culture" fans as Joni did back then--say someone like Sarah Jarosz. It's just that the mass culture delivery system--TV--has made such a juggernaut of current tastes that business is less likely today to put money behind anything but a sure thing.
I'm at work and realize--just now--that I've probably written myself into a corner and haven't completely or succinctly expressed my argument, but I'm going to have to leave it there with the hope that you at least see my concern about the statement of yours that I quoted above. Happy listening...
Tom
It's been a reality for a few years.
Nt
.
I see more and more members of this forum streaming music from websites, including some of our classical music lovers and performers whom i respect a great deal.
I certainly stream music of newer performing artists to find "new" music for myself - some of it dated, some of it recent. But, then, if it shows promise i buy a CD to test the waters.
Observe, before you think. Think before you open your yap. Act on the basis of experience.
The music that is being created is more similar.
jm
Ha. Except for those audiophiles that buy all of the reiussues of the same RCA, Mercury, Blue Notes etc.
The death of culture to the rule of pop is not a new phenomenon. See Ben Yagoda's recent book re: the transition from the "American Songbook." In any event, to me, the concern is overstated and the issue oversimplified. Great new music is still widely produced and available. The process is probably more democratic now than ever before. With newer artists like Bon Iver, The National, Sigur Ros, I'm going to sit back, stream, and not worry about it. Yes, awful pop music dominates the industry at large, but that isn't it directed at a certain age range. People grow up and tastes inevitably change. There is a market (and supply) for those over 16.
...wasn't Joni Mitchell the new Judy Collins?
Things haven't changed that much.
There are at least three types of popular music today - Indie, Pop and Rap - and they intertwine sometimes.
Maybe like folk, classic rock and Motown in my day.
Many people use streaming services like Pandora to discover new music in the genre they prefer.
Many of us older far...folks may listen to the same 500 songs streaming over and over - that's called car radio.
Internet radio and Sirius have expanded on that somewhat.
We do have many more choices today - we just may not use them.
Eric Hoffer once wrote:
“Nonconformists travel as a rule in bunches. You rarely find a nonconformist who goes it alone. And woe to him inside a nonconformist clique who does not conform with nonconformity.”
Want to see AWFUL conformity? Tune in to ANY of the singing 'talent' shows'.
Too much is never enough
Funny quote, but of course, a clique of non-conformists is more oxymoronic than paradoxical. The equivalent to a squad of hermits. Cheers.
You might want to look in over at the CABLE section. Just TRY to be a non-conformist over THERE.
The push to conformity has turned what is still, for many persons, an open issue, into writ.
Too much is never enough
the same reductionist stuff 40+ years ago, too: too wide pants and too long hair!
That said, I absolutely agree with you. I have god knows how many cable channels and never find anything amusing; I always end up watching some foreign or art house film (okay, I confess to the occasional viewing of a sporting event or a "reality" crime show such as Homicide Hunter: Joe Kenda is one great personality, reminds me of a very large Basset Hound).
Edits: 01/27/15
A Cadi sitting under a plane tree, I am not... .
jm
nt
... and is much older than you, all I can say is ... so?
We all missed the opportunity to hear all those greats, on whatever media, and managed to survive without guilt and certainly never obsessed about ...hats.
I tried unsuccessfully for more than two years to get my jazz-loving friends to listen to Billy Taylor at the Kennedy Center broadcast on NPR every Saturday night at 8 P.M. (WETA in the Washington DC area). Phenomenal performances broadcast in phenomenal fidelity. Did any of my friends listen? Of course not. So I have 75 of these performances recorded off-air. They enjoy hearing them, after the fact. So?
It is what it is, If you're open and imaginative and not consumed with angst, you can find plenty of great things to hear and enjoy, via all kinds of media. Don't be surprised if future generations look back on today as a golden age, Or not. But you can certainly make it your own.
Dunno 'bout "much older," though.
I am not angst-ridden. However I am concerned that pop music has painted itself into a corner. Anyone who doubts that should go to YouTube and listen to Janis Ian's "Seventeen," and then listen to Taylor Swift's "At Fifteen."
And on the jazz front, the same "clumping" effect has taken place, but not of course to the same extent.
Years ago I had a chat with Michael Tilson Thomas who told me that his view was that classical music was in a bit of a fallow period, and that people who (my words not his) succumb to the deterministic fallacy that the success of Bach or Mozart was inevitible forget that the history of classical music is full of fallow periods where the greats of the past generation have died out, this generation has not achieved on their level, but the new art has not yet appeared on the scene.
My concern is that by the time the new art gets here, there will be no venues for the new art to be performed in.
I also will note that the areas of classical music today that are the most vibrant, managing to combine innovation with accessibility, are choral music and string-quartet music.
Both those are forms are similar in that they do not require huge amounts of infrastructure and backoffice costs. For years before they filed for Bankruptcy, the Philadelphia Orchestra paid their General Manager about $500,000 a year. To "manage failure" all the way down.
A choral group or a string quartet does not need a $500,000/year General Manager. They can connect directly with their audiences and build bonds of trust so that the audiences trust them when they say they are going to perform something new, and that it will be good.
So, "The Arts in an Age of Institutions and Cultural Homogenization" is not a totally insoluble problem, but the solutions are not likely to look familiar, I think.
ATB,
John
art schools, critics--- and I'd have to say, justifiably so. Video is the preferred "way," and it is, from all I've seen (and it's a lot), quite shallow compared to film (meaning a lengthier work with narrative, dialogue, editing, etc.).
We've seen the death of popular music. Certainly, there's plenty of listenable stuff out there--- LOTS of it.
But is it something I'd pay to own? That I'd listen to next year--- or next week when Pandora (or another service) provided me with new options?
Black culture, that rescued white folks from the terminal boredom of their watered down music for over a century, similarly has no answers: hip-hop is musically stilted; rap is ugly and toxic lyric spread over boring music.
Look further afield: architecture. No lack of ingenuity in Gehry, Piano, Koolhaas, etc.
But after Bilbao--- what's left to say?
If Frank Gehry painted a painting:
It would arrive years late;
It would be shockingly over-budget; and
It would leak.
jm
from pulmonary disease.
Fallingwater had massive design problems (roof, too, if memory serves).
Film is the only major art form in which greatness still resides.
Painting.
Sculpture.
Architecture.
Music.
Dance.
Literature.
I can think of several interesting members of each of the other six, but this is in relation to dozens of remarkable and original artists, in earlier times at random fixed points.
It is hard not to succumb to the hangover of the fin de siecle blues.
It is no small consolation to me, as a geezer, to look back (not in anger) and be glad to have passed my salad days in earlier times.
Edits: 01/29/15
When Joshua Reynolds died all nature was degraded;
The Queen shed a tear in the King's ear, and all his pictures faded.
(William Blake, poet and seer)
Are the streaming services primarily for old pop music? I would suspect that this would significantly eat into download sales if they actually played what's currently in vogue.
...I think its unfortunate.I love that I can grab a record off the shelf that I bought 40 years ago and listen to it while I read the liner notes. Just old fashioned that way, I guess. I like tangible stuff.
Dean.
reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
Edits: 01/27/15
why "collect"? It's like collecting this year's clothes for the fashion-conscious... cannot wear 'em next year.
Plus, the "current generation" - at least according to the news media - has very different feelings about property/ownership than us old boomers and our forebears. In a world where the [technology] status quo changes every few months, why own something?
Of course, I am not the best person to weigh in on this topic...
all the best,
mrh
concerts? digital downloads? more money from streaming?
This has been "standard music industry practice" since the get-go. Ask Willie Dixon. Ask Fogarty. Ask Springsteen. Ask Zappa. Ask Fripp.
gets substantially higher per "share" of same video.
Not sure about youtubes rates although I'm sure they're comparable.
Record number of views on youtube: 2 1/4 billion.. "gangam style
perhaps, that's the story with the artists I listen to. :)
A few years down the road living in the Matrix is gonna look pretty good....
Give me rhythm or give me death!
"The top 1 percent of bands and solo artists now earn about 80 percent of all revenue from recorded music...."
with a bit more effort the powers that be will get 'em that next 10% soon!
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
"It's more like a commonly accepted short-cut for a formerly popular thing is now withering at a commercially meaningful rate."
But we've heard that about CDs for years since downloads became popular in the 1990s.
Now streaming is taking over.
Who knows what's next.
Fortunately there are a still a lot of new and used CDs still available and they will be for the foreseeable future.
vinyl and tubes died thirty years ago? :)
jazz has been dead WAY longer!
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
...zombies.
The horror!
Hi, jedrider,
It's interesting that even sales of digital music downloads are dropping. But it makes sense. Now that we're beginning to see relatively high quality music from streaming services, why bother with vinyl, CDs, even digital files when you have access to a collection that dwarfs anything you could possibly purchase (or store) on your own?
For me it's mostly about the quality of the sound and a life-long familiarity with playing albums. I suppose that streaming music might be offered as complete albums, but my hunch (based on the article's I've read) is that it won't. People seem to want a stream of hits and favorites rather than listening to an album.
There may come a day when the sound quality of streaming music is comparable with vinyl, a good CD, or a hi-rez download and if/when that time comes I may decide to abandon my vinyl and CDs. But only if I can listen to an entire album of my choice. 'Til then, I'll continue to purchase vinyl and CDs and will be happily listening to my music collection while the rest of the world is being homogenized.
Regards,
Tom
I have been buying CD(s) every week since 1987!
You hoarder! ;-)
Those CDs might be worth even more than you spent on them someday.
Those CDs might be worth even more than you spent on them someday.
On the other hand, they may be worth $.01 on Amazon + shipping. I have purchased quite a few that way. :)
Decent article, it certainly favors down-loading...
Plenty of used prerecorded music still in local stores. In 20 years, more like 10 to 15 years I will be dead. (maybe even tomorrow)
So beyond my stash in my hot little hands. I do not give a fig for sales.I have such a huge backlog of stuff to listen to, plus re-listening to over and over (favorites), yes 20 years worth.. 'New' music? lOL
The article is like 'the Sun will go Supernova in 5 billion years.. so start worrying..."
Now if I was a young music artist.. I might worry. As is, I am old, and do not care in the least.
Edits: 01/26/15
When visiting, I do get subjected to music provided by Music Streaming. In fact, my own wife subjects me to it.
So, unless one lives in a cave (the listening room), maybe it DOES have an impact on us all ;-)
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