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In Reply to: RE: You know Elvis? You must be a faith guy..... posted by Sordidman on January 22, 2015 at 17:43:58
A lot of people get into trouble listening to what the little voices in their head tells them.
Face it, y'all were the Jehovah's witness' of the audiophile world before Rod so kindle created your cable asylum and your own, personal "no-go zone", replete with your own muhammed. But, they have their own houses of worship too.
And, just like the witness', when you leave your house of worship and go out knocking on doors, you can expect to either have the door slammed in your face or, even worse, ridiculed.
So, some guy dared transgress your beliefs in your own no go zone and you had Rod apply sharia law. Now you get to dance your war dance.
But, again, if those differences are so apparant, how come nobody has ever convinced the world they are all that significant? After all, nobody disagrees that speakers sound different. Where's that proof?
"I can hear it" doesn't quite cut it in the real world.
Follow Ups:
it does....
And, - the "burden on proof" is on the person making the claim. And "proof" is a dynamic term, that applies differently to different subjects/objects.
""A lot of people get into trouble listening to what the little voices in their head tells them.""
In this case, that "straw man" and childish over-exaggeration outside reason holds no water. So, without any evidence you are calling people liars? If so, you know where you can stick it.
""Face it, y'all were the Jehovah's witness' of the audiophile world before Rod so kindle created your cable asylum and your own, personal "no-go zone", replete with your own muhammed. But, they have their own houses of worship too.""
I speak for myself, and the only religious dogma, is your unfounded, (outside reason, and outside the application of science and logic), behavior and insults.
""And, just like the witness', when you leave your house of worship and go out knocking on doors, you can expect to either have the door slammed in your face or, even worse, ridiculed.""
Yes, - for years, - fanatics like yourself, outside reason, persecute the truth: it's what, (as a cowardly bully), you do. What makes it worse, is it that you hide behind the work of cowards, instead of investigating & thinking for your self.
""So, some guy dared transgress your beliefs in your own no go zone and you had Rod apply sharia law. Now you get to dance your war dance.""
I'm not the one preaching here, especially the dogma that different cables sound the same. The supreme arrogance is the religious nutter who tells others what they can, and can not hear.
"""I can hear it" doesn't quite cut it in the real world.""
Yes it does actually, like most people here, I own, 4 different audio playback systems. Do you really think that people purchase audio systems that are never used?
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
see my posts below.
i did not hear something....
It also could make you incredibly wrong, - because I further claim that if you sat down with me, - you would hear it as well.
That, emphasizes the most important thing, - actually having experiences for YOURSELF, actually testing things for YOURSELF.
The best way to know about whether or not something sounds different is to experience it, to try it. You don't know if you like sushi until you try it. You don't know what it's like to ride a bike through the forest until you do it....
This goes to the fundamental issue of the denigration of empirical data, and the lack of understanding of what "science" & testing, & comparative analysis actually is. People who do the testing, come to the same conclusions. And that's why they stopped unscientific, inexperienced, naysayers disrupt the cable asylum. Because the goal is to enhance the listening experience and try to achieve good sound.
Namely, people with lots of experiences, and who've tested different cables, have found, (and relatively agree), that cables with different properties cause the final sound to SOMETIMES be different: this is a (relative) consensus amongst the MAJORITY of people with experience.
If there was no need for a cable asylum, it wouldn't be here.
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
If I have to work that hard to try to convince myself I hear a difference, the reality is that I probably don't and an simply realizing a wish.
But, again, if those differences are so apparant, how come nobody has ever convinced the world they are all that significant? After all, nobody disagrees that speakers sound different. Where's that proof?
Who cares?
Nobody has convinced the world that high end audio reproduction is a worthy pursuit. There's no point in trying to validate one's hobby with the rest of the world that doesn't care.
The only people whose opinions matter to me regarding audio are people who have heard what high end audio systems are capable of and who appreciate it enough to make it their pursuit and who can listen critically and then articulate the aspects of sound quality they are hearing.
There are plenty of people who pontificate about the audio hobby based on a simplistic model of audio reproduction who have never experienced really high fidelity systems, or who have but couldn't appreciate the difference. I do not care about these people's opinions on system building. Nor do I care what anybody thinks who isn't into this hobby.
A better example of religious belief in this hobby is clinging to the DBT. It is an experimental technique that has done nothing to advance the state of the art of audio reproduction. Successful researchers select experimental methods that provide new information and help them advance. Only a fool worships a method that brings no results.
Regarding the cable asylum rules, they would be unnecessary if everybody exercised simple forum etiquette. No hobby forum anywhere welcomes people who post there only to tell everyone their hobby is bullshit. It should be tolerable in small doses, but the cable forum had a history where it suffered from a few disruptive posters flooding the forum with the same pointless comments over and over.
.
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
So, they don't like people asking uncomfortable questions they can't answer with scientific testing and logic? That's why they need to be segregated into their own no-go zone?
So be it. Whatever it takes to keep the peace. Let the beheadings begin!
Personally, I'll trust my own ears and keep my opinions to myself unless, of course, I form a cult with like minded zealots and we can stroke each others egos. ...and then we can proselytize to the rest of the world until some kind person offers us refuge. where no discouraging words are allowed.
oh the hypocrisy.
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
It's just when you propose to tell others what they should believe, or hear, that problems arise.
something......
Worse, - you're calling them liars.
You're like the Catholic church, if you just looked into Galileos telescope, - you'd see that the sun does NOT revolve around the earth. Except in this case, you're one of the lone reactionaries, (with your eyes closed, and your fingers in your ears: singing LALALALA).
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
That makes you the Taliban. so, whose the real dictator here?
.
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
nt
try it! you know you want to!
.
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
Just my opinion but I think power cables can make a HUGE difference in a system!.. Look at my review over on the cable forum here...
Now I have some idea how much weight I can put in your posts.
Edits: 01/23/15
I wonder, has anyone in the history of mankind ever used "scientific testing" to ascertain that the *next step* (the step just below the one they're presently standing on in a stairwell) is actually there as it appears to be? Or, do they tend to keep on climbing or descending in faith-based manner?My point is: Nobody bothers to test everything their senses report to them because, most of the time, we can indeed trust our senses. It's only after some crazy person *sees* the step that isn't there and walks into an open stairwell that the "scientific inquiries" might begin...
Edits: 01/23/15 01/25/15
And many people hear things that aren't so, also.
Asylums are full of them. (see what I did there? ;))
How many illusionists do you think there are, lurking in the shadows waiting to fool us?
Anything's possible, I guess...
Experience tells us that certain things are more likely than others are and that our senses can indeed be trusted, for the most part.
Dunno. Count the hi-bux ads in any number of audio magazines. ;)
How do you know?
Where you there with them, not hearing something that they did?
Do you feel the same way about your sense of sight?
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
One of the things that I've learned in my Philosophy of Science studies is that you can't "prove" that the wall exists, but you have to behave as though it does. This leads us to the truth that our branch of chimp-hominids still have a lot to learn, and that there are different degrees of "proof." I think sometimes that people get really confused between what they call science, and the application of the scientific method.
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
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