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In Reply to: RE: causes of DARK sounding system? posted by bullethead on January 20, 2015 at 14:17:01
IME I associate lifeless with an overdamped transient response - systems like this can be quite beautiful and colorful but lack musical progression and drive. Slightly underdamped systems may be more emotionally compelling and a more energetic presentation but lack the color/beauty of a system approaching ideal damping from the other side. Yes perfect transient response is ideal but you have to approach it from one side or the other. The thing here is pretty much we're all on one side or the other on this issue - what's a ripe stinking poop in my eyes is some other guys thing of beauty. Conversely what gets me off might be the next guys raspy noisey headache.
Just my two cents. Not sure if background relates to this.
Give me rhythm or give me death!
Follow Ups:
I have bass traps and a lot of dampening room treatments, perhaps I over did it. The sense of decay is almost non-existent, that is what I am missing. It must be the treatments in the room.
There is a very large improvement to be had by raising the height of the Gallo Ref 3.5's. I previously searched for reasonably priced solid stands for the Ref 3.5's. Many of these enhanced maple stands cost upwards of $1000.00, for common wood of all things. Searching the internet I discovered a material used in shooting ranges to stop large caliber high velocity bullets. I gave some thought to the high energy absorption required of such a material. I thought the characteristics required for that application could be easily transferrable for use as loudspeaker stands.
I ordered two blocks of vulcanized ballistic rubber. They measure ideally for the Ref 3.5 platform: 8" x 8" x 16" and are very heavy and solid at 41 pounds each.
I would never have believed such a dramatic transformation in the sound of these speakers. The overall impact is tremendous. The resultant bass is the equivalent of adding two high quality subwoofers without the expense and complexity. The bass is not only fuller and deeper but has greater layers of detail and tone color. There is more range and nuance. The mid and high frequencies likewise have a three dimensional quality with subtle cues previously masked by the lower profile of the speakers directly on the floor. Horns are not anemic sounding but very full with the appropriately realistic sound pressure levels. You can hear the individual notes on each string of a guitar. What especially amazes me is it seems I have gained more efficiency. The Ref 3.5's play louder at the same volume setting I previously used. The soundstage is much wider and deeper with the instrumentalists moving farther into the room without a loss of depth of field. Also, overall clarity is substantially improved and the experience seems cleaner overall.
These loudspeakers absolutely need to be raised at least 8 inches off the floor. The tweeters are now at my seated ear level, 8 inches higher than stock. I previously had them slightly toed in but this is no longer necessary. I moved them about 6 inches closer to the center line and pointed straight ahead. They are positioned 9 feet apart and I sit about 13 feet away with the woofers facing each other.
There are two minor cautions. These blocks are priced at $41.00 each but the UPS ground shipping is costly due to the total 82 pound weight, or about $1.00 per pound. They are made of vulcanized rubber and have a pronounced oily rubber smell prevailing in the room when you first take them out of the box. I helped to disperse this by leaving the window and door open all day with only the fan on the HVAC operating (my dedicated room has its own HVAC).
This is the best $158.00 I have ever spent. Seriously, this is like getting an entirely new music library and loudspeakers at once without spending exorbitant amounts of money on high end audiophile approved products.
These are now the best speakers that I have ever owned. They are much better than the ADS 810's, the ADS 1590's, the PMC AML1's or the Avalon Eidolons I previously owned. Now that I have the room tuned in properly I know I am absolutely correct on the sound of these Ref 3.5's and that sound is not dark.
I already have several ideas as to how I could incorporate those products. Thank you!
Thank you. I forgot to add that chemical smell took about a week to dissipate with the window open and the HVAC fan on 24/7. Alternatively, the blocks could be put outside in the sun to clear the gasses left over from the manufacturing process.
I also would not encourage setting the blocks on any carpeting you might not wish to stain. If necessary, you could slip a sheet of wax paper between the bottom of the block and the carpeting. Mine are sitting on porcelain tiles and have left absolutely no residue but I would not take a chance with fine carpeting.
I've bookmarked that post.
I have to agree with E-Stat. Room treatments are a big plus when used properly. From your pic, the one thing I've noticed is you don't appear to have placed any absorbing type panels on front wall behind the speakers and equipment rack. This is the first place I use absorbing treatment. I use diffraction devices behind the listening position. Yes, you can overdue it or place treatments in incorrect places. These are things that require experimentation. In the end and over time, I feel you're going to find component synergy, not room treatment, is the real issue.
I have bass traps and a lot of dampening room treatments, perhaps I over did it.
your current arrangement? I have quite a few bass traps in my room too, but experimented greatly with placement and measured the results.
I prefer using diffraction over damping.
I'm still fiddling around, but I like what I hear, will look into elevating the speakers.
a "dark sounding system"?
there was a speech last night that I didn't listen to, maybe that was it?
I just looked at his system ... Only time I heard the Anthony Gallo Acoustics Nucleus Reference 3.5 was in a friends system. I thought they were boring but reserve final judgement for a few reasons. Firstly because I can't remember the amplifier in use at the time and I've heard they benefit from oodles and oodles of power, and secondly the were just a quick sub for the Wilson Watt/Puppy 7 (then) used in that system, speakers I really like (when dialed in just so).
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