|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
96.229.246.59
The top shelf here on my cheap 20+ year old Sanus rack puts up with high heat. I think there isn't an issue here, but if I want to try something different such as the taller KT120 I need to do a creative drill/cut project to allow some breathing room.
The last amp had only 4 power tubes, now it gets REAL hot.Any precautions I should be aware of working with processed wood? Will this stuff just disintegrate with a drill bit/blade?
I want to cut a hole large enough but not compromise the integrity since there is about 75lbs of table/platform resting on this shelf.
Edits: 12/21/14 12/21/14 12/21/14Follow Ups:
I would say that cheap wood, chips, splits easily.
After checking the website, I found out the shelves are made of melamine.
Thanks to instant knowledge,(Wiki) it's just about everywhere in our lives in some form!
Maybe different layout plan eventually. For now, I will enjoy peace of mind and just listen.
Melamine is the name of the thin plastic veneer used on the exterior of the shelf. The bulk of the shelf itself is most likely made of high or medium density particle board, or possibly plywood.
Edits: 12/24/14
Yes, I should be more precise. It's just wrapped in that stuff. The shelf is probably a compressed mash of what used to be actual hardwood?
I'm still wondering if cutting a vent hole the size or slightly larger than the area of the tubes would really compromise the integrity of the shelf?
That's the area the gets pretty close to unbearable to even touch.
All the weight above(75lbs?)is distributed on four corners the are on top ofthe pillars, so weight is basically not on the shelf.
A chimney might be most helpful.
For the shelf above the amp: For bottom of fake wood shelf aquire a metal plate. Best would be copper, second best aluminum. Say 1/8" or 2 to 3mm thick. Then screw it down to the bottom of the shelf above the amp with small standoffs. even washers would work.
The plate would carry most of the heat and it would dissipate to the sides well with no ventilation holes..
you could even add a layer of insulation between metal and fake wood instead of just air.
But imo the air would be fine.
A similar concept I thought of was just simple aluminum foil. But I thought it was just too low tech to work?
Thanks for the suggestion.
Your solution might keep the wooden shelves from catching fire, but to ensure that the lifespan of the amp is not diminished by poor heat dissipation a cooling fan and/or more space above the amp would be a good thing.
nyuk nyuk nyuk
E
T
Everyone loves a lovable smart-ass!
.., I wouldn't keep a hot running tube amp like that so close to the shelf above it. If the amp were to catch fire for any reason...If it were possible to adjust the position of the shelf above so that you had 12" or more of clearance, I'd do that. Otherwise, I think I'd remove the amp from the rack altogether and place it somewhere else nearby.
You might have to invest in a pair of longer interconnects, but I'd consider a separate amp stand. Or, floor placement.
Edits: 12/21/14
I'd just use a fan. It won't take much! Try a pair of 120mm 12V computer fans running on 9V, go for the quietest fans you can afford.
Is there an adaptor for whatever the standard PC fan connector is, that then can plug into a wall wart?
If I can figure something out to suspend a quiet pc fan between pillars, AND have it appear part of the rack, then I'm in business.
I need it particularly in the front section since the transformers are relatively cool.
I'm aware there are high performance pc fans, so the idea has me thinking.
Even with the use of a fan I'd want a bit more space above those tubes, for the sake of safety and security. If the fan should fail there would be no safety net left for the amp itself or for the shelf above it.
I wouldn't want a fan to be my only hope in this case.
I'm not really concerned with the amp itself. The fault protection would prevent most situations. The actual shelf is what I'm concerned with.
Curious if the long term heat does anything to the shelf?
On the other hand, gear taking up even more space is why I have stayed with an integrated.
I really wanted to go pre/monoblocs, but giving up more space killed the idea.
The upper shelf may eventually warp due to heat, especially if you weaken the structure by drilling ventilation holes in it. More importantly, the upper shelf could eventually ignite - with or without an amp malfunction.
Also, even if the amp's protection circuit was 100% trustworthy, it would not prevent a fire caused by overheating of the shelf material.
My inner paranoia is leaving it on the floor for now.
The really cheap but sounds okay tuner gets promoted to shelf.
I'd much rather have a Marantz 10B there, unfortunately no time soon.
When I had my Rogue integrated in a rack with restricted air circulation, I mounted a quiet speed controlled muffin fan on the shelf (using L brackets from Home Depot) and behind the amp. I turned the speed down so as not to hear it but sufficient to circulate the air. This kept the shelf above from baking.
With the large transformer covers on your amp, placing the fan behind it might not help that much. Another possibility is to get a regular box fan and run it at slow speed with air going across the tubes (L to R or R to L). Larger fans can turn at slower speeds (quieter) while moving more air. If the slowest speed on the box fan is still to fast, you can try a fan speed control.
First and foremost, do what makes you comfortable with the situation.
Now that I see your rack and with it being completely open on all fours sides, I personally think its all about nothing and your amp would live happily on the shelf.
But, better safe than sorry.
Dean.
reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
Yup, better safe than sorry.
Back when I used to own an Audible Illusions tube preamp, one of the manufacturer's recommendations was that there should be a minimum of 12" of free space above the unit, just in case the unit should malfunction and catch fire. AA tube preamps have a good reliability record but they do run hotter than some others do. I'm sure that it never got nearly as hot as the tube amp in question here, though.
It's just common sense. If anything should go wrong, you don't want your insurance company doing an investigation afterwards and declaring that you were negligent and at fault somehow.
Your "inner paranoia" might be the best friend you'll ever have. Hot running amps require space, plain and simple. It's just the nature of the beast.If I was using a tube amp, the only way I'd rely on a fan for safety in a tight space would be if all surrounding structures were made of non-combustible materials. Class D amps are the ones to use for tight spaces.
Edits: 12/21/14 12/21/14
The ca[s also tend to blow up. It is a mess. I would suggest a larger gap between amp and shelf. Those amps on the shelf with the fans look like a fire hazard if you leave the room and God help you if you accidentally leave them on.
Can't help you with the fake wood issue, but fans might help. These are excellent and very close to silent; on low speed with the TrueQuiet 120 I can't hear anything unless I'm about 6" from them. I have one on each power amp, and one for the tube preamp that's in a more confined space. Note that they are designed for computer cooling, so you have to rig a 12VDC (I think) wall wort to power it.
WW
"A man need merely light the filaments of his receiving set and the world's greatest artists will perform for him." Alfred N. Goldsmith, RCA, 1922
... The before shot of a house burning down.
Smile
Sox
Sorry, I'm afraid I don't get that one, but thanks for the smile.
WW
"A man need merely light the filaments of his receiving set and the world's greatest artists will perform for him." Alfred N. Goldsmith, RCA, 1922
... G'day Bill,
Aussie humour.
No offence meant but I cringe seeing books in between tube amps in a bookcase. I'd always be concerned about a fire.
FWIW I use fans myself for my tube gear.
Cheers!
Smile
Sox
No offense taken. And I *have* been involved in an audio fire, when a Phase Linear 700 took out most of a hifi shop back in the early 70's. *Anything* plugged into the wall supply is a potential fire hazard. In the hifi world, tube gear is marginally more dangerous, as its power supplies tend to be beefier, and big beefy caps can make a big spark when they fail. In the pro world, power supplies tend to be huge for almost everything - my BGW 50-watter has a pair of 7,300uF 400V caps; it's basically a power supply with a few transistors tacked on, and just as dangerous as any tube amp.
Dangers can sometimes come from unexpected places. I swapped out 9V batteries in the high-pass filters for Vandy Quatros once. Because one had a defective circuit that shorted the battery, it put off some truly impressive heat - easily enough to burn fingers or ignite any flammable materials. (They are in enclosures with RCA pigtails, so the only things they could burn were the PCBs and their mounted components. The did leave scorch marks, but that's about it.)
The amps in the pic have free space all around, and no part of the chassis gets more than slightly warm. So I get your point about bookshelves and electronics. I'd just say, "Pay attention to all installations."
Cheers,
WW
"A man need merely light the filaments of his receiving set and the world's greatest artists will perform for him." Alfred N. Goldsmith, RCA, 1922
The tweak in me came up with a left/right with them working in a intake/outlet fashion.I can suspend them between the trusses. Or maybe that wouldn't be as effective like 2 simply blowing air in?
Adding more stuff I want to avoid but if cutting/modding shelf doesn't work, fan(or 2?) it will be?
Great suggestions, thanks.
why not simply hang a fan on one side. Impedance protected muffin fans run at half speed and are very quiet.
"Impedance protected muffin fans run at half speed and are very quiet."
Hmm..I suppose that is a solution. Not exactly sure what they are. Is it something like a fan that components might have inside like a computer?
Yeah, they are computer fans. I use the 220-240 volt impedance protected units and when run at 120 VAC they spin at half speed: slow but moves the hot air more than adequately.
and then you would not mess with the rack
If I were to do this I would use a hole saw with a pilot drill, I would drill until I saw the pilot bit come through the other side and then finish drilling from the opposite side. Also if you put masking tape in the cut areas it may help prevent chipping of the surface.
Bob
Thanks for the tip, my woodworking knowledge is next to zero. I am only aware this stuff is "IKEA" grade. Afraid the vinyl like coating is whats holding it together and once its cut-bye,bye!
It's fake vinyl that sucks!
Good advice Bob.
And yet despite the look on my face, you're still talking.
Them fans is hanging on like a ninja
Post a Followup:
FAQ |
Post a Message! |
Forgot Password? |
|
||||||||||||||
|
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: