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In Reply to: RE: Cool... posted by Inmate51 on November 10, 2014 at 15:17:22
Got it...does this effect you? ;)
thanks
Mark
Recommended Books?
I have not ran sound since 1991...no dog in this fight...so lighten up Francis...(see Sargent Hulka in the not too loud movie Stripes)...
Follow Ups:
Why are people so f'ing pissy on this site? I have appreciated all the good advice i have received and none of the "pissiness" has been directed at me, but shit, I'm a litigation lawyer and (to my utter amazement) even most lawyers aren't so crabby. Cheer up guys.
Kerry
I am not a pissy kind of guy...BUT I write, what I like to think is a thoughtful response defending sound guys and Inmate 51...says Hogwash to my personal experiences...that is how it starts...
Me Bad...won't engage again...
Thank you for pointing that out...I will take the high road...
Mark
did get a few laughs from picturing an angry guy with a physics text climbing about on stage… what an effect from an affected guy.
I am typically a guy that does not attack the "windmills" on an internet "hobby forum"....but he blinded me with....SCIENCE...
Now that I have thought about it...the spectrum analyzer, with the pink noise generator into a 1/3 octave EQ...that tames allot of physics...and feedback from the stage...along with room nodes...
Thanks again...
Mark
the "experience."
I find it all but impossible to attend popular music concerts anymore. I also find I enjoy music at home at far more subtle levels.
What has changed, from one generation to the other, is that visual stimuli now vies with noise. It appears the goal is to STUN the audience into submission.
I bet "Interstellar" soon will be employed by the "intel extractors" working hard for us at Guantanamo and other places.
Actually, I thought you were the reasonable one. So, if I were you, I would point at the other guy and say "he started it." I can tell you aren't a pissy kind of guy. I would have been ticked off too if I were a sound guy. And... don't get me wrong. I think it's all hilarious. It's not like I'm offended.
Kerry
Mark, look man, I'm not raggin' on ya. I'm just saying that the snare drum doesn't set the volume level for a band, unless it's a really bad drummer who doesn't have a clue (in which case, I'd go work for a different band!). Actually, now that I've said that, I remember back about 6 years ago when I played in a jazz big band. Our drummer sucked. He played too loud and he played too much. Not surprisingly, he also played in a rock band. A couple of times, he couldn't make a gig and we'd get this other guy, Paul, who was really good. Man, I wish he'd been our regular drummer!Anyway, now that you've said that you used a 3' - 5' riser, that makes some sense regarding getting the cymbals out of other players' ears. I'da never thought that. Did he have to keep his head down so as not to hit the ceiling? Heck, the late great Buddy Rich only used a 1' riser (6' x 6', no carpet). And then there's the excellent Steve Gadd, who can play as soft or as loud as the bandleader wants. I first heard him at the MENC convention in 1972(?) in Atlanta with the Eastman Studio Orchestra under the direction of Chuck Mangione. He's gone on to give many many many great performances since then! Have you seen him on Eric Clapton's 2001 "One More Car, One More Rider" DVD? Ditto for my good acquaintance Stockton Helbing, who for the past couple of years, has been Doc Severinsen's drummer (and formerly was Maynard Ferguson's drummer and music director). Following in the footsteps of Louis Bellson and Ed Shaughnessy, those be some big shoes to fill.
So, my point is simply, if you're setting the sound as dictated by the snare drum, that's not a good thing.
When I ran sound for a rock band, the snare wasn't ever an issue. "Boom" was an issue. "Bleed" was an issue. But not the snare drum or the cymbals. (Note to rock band sound guys: Use the 80 Hz roll-off switch on the mics.)
With regard to book recommendations, start with Harry Olson's "Music, Physics and Engineering". It pretty much establishes the foundation upon which you can explore further. Some of the examples are dated, but, fortunately, physics hasn't changed.
:)
Edits: 11/11/14
The more I have thought about this, I have to look at the era I ran sound...80's through 91...this was the era of BAD HAIR BANDS...24"-26" bass drums and 8"-12" snare drums...12" snare is cannon...literally...then they used 2B's for drum sticks, (baseball bats)...
I always look at Stewart Copland, played a Jazz kit, 18" bass drum, 5" snare and used 7A drumsticks...he is one of the all time heavy hitters behind the kit, but was never too loud and had great dynamics...he tailored his kit to compensate for how hard he beat those drums...
I had the opportunity to work with a great blues band, who had a drummer that recognized the venue he was playing in and adjusted his dynamics accordingly...With this band we had gig opening for B.B. King, Buddy Guy and Bo Diddley...one of the best gigs I have ever had...very cool...
I had my own system that I rented out to bands and it came with me, so I worked for allot of BAD bands...it was like trying to polish a turd...
My high water mark for a live show sound was Pat Methany at MT State University, he played one of cafeterias during his Off Ramp tour. This was the tour when he first used the Roland Guitar Synthesizer...he had 4 guitars on stands so he could just reach over and play them, start a sequencer loop playing different lines on each one, then went back to the Roland was playing church bells, with a Brazilian Percussionist that had 4 mikes panned around the room...he was waving a sheet of tin moving from mike to mike in one direction and moving his head in opposite direction chanting...it was just a surreal experience...
Thank you for book recommendation and your input...
I still stand by my thoughts on snare drums...setting stage volume...getting the vocals to come through was ALWAYS the priority...
I can respectfully agree to disagree...but hey, that's why they make Fords and Chevys...
take care
Mark
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