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In Reply to: RE: Some New Paypal Rules posted by Awe-d-o-file on October 14, 2014 at 08:03:40
180 days for returns does seem like an absurdly long time.
I stopped using Paypal a while ago, even for ebay items. I have discovered that many ebay sellers who own their own stores will gladly accept a variety of credit cards, or other forms of payment, if you ask them about it.
The only way for people to defeat the big monopolizers is to start working with, and trusting, others once again. Give peace a chance.
Follow Ups:
It's not for simple returns. It's only for items you paid for but haven't received, or for items that were significantly not as described. Not for "I don't like it" sort of returns.
I don't know why people are all up in arms about it.
... for a buyer to report "item not received" or "item not as described". If a buyer can't figure out if one of these two things is applicable within 30 days of purchase or receipt, then perhaps that buyer should be forced to avoid long-distance or online transactions. Craigslist might be a better choice for such a buyer.
Edits: 10/15/14 10/15/14
Some things may not ship within 30 days. PayPal isn't used just by people on eBay wanting to sell their junk or their latest yard sale find. It's also used by businesses that have no presence on eBay. If you're buying a custom item or an out of stock item, there may be delays.
As far as I'm concerned, this is a non-issue for honest sellers.
A estimated shipping date is usually provided in the details of the purchase agreement. 30 days time from the estimated shipping date (or the actual arrival date for "item not as described") should be more than enough time in most cases.
I can understand your viewpoint, but I can also see the potential for abuse in this new policy.
I just don't see any real potential. A customer that doesn't want to fuck with you within 45 days will suddenly want to fuck with you during days 46-180? Sure, they CAN do it if they choose to. But then there are all sorts of things people can do but generally don't. The guy in line behind me at the grocery store COULD shove a knife in my back. But that's never happened nor it it something I worry about when I'm in line at the grocery store.
Same way I feel about this new policy.
Yes, I'd say that the probability of the seller getting cheated is greater after day 45 - at least when the buyer knows that they have another 135 days left to return the item.
I agree with you in that the majority of buyers are not dishonest.
And, I agree with the others who say that more buyers are going to feel tempted to cheat a seller if they think they can *borrow* an item for six months at a time before returning it for a full refund.
They can't just borrow it. They have to show that either it wasn't received or they received something SUBSTANTIALLY different than what they ordered. As I said before, the 180 days doesn't apply to simple "I don't like it" returns.
So it's real simple. Always use a means of shipping that provides tracking, and don't send them a wheelbarrow when they've ordered a toaster. This should be par for the course for any seller, regardless if the terms are 45 days or 180 days.
It's not that hard for a buyer to swap out some old parts for some news parts in an item and then claim that the seller sold them something bogus.This actually happened to someone I know. A guy in China bought a pair of speakers from him, then removed the good working drivers and replaced them with identical looking bad drivers. Then, the buyer demanded a refund because the speakers "didn't play" and ebay decided against the seller. The seller was forced to refund the money, pay for all shipping costs, and accept the return of his "broken" speakers.
If the Chinese guy had borrowed the speakers for six months before altering and returning them I'm sure that the seller would have felt even worse than he already did, especially if he had already spent all of the money he received from the sale.
The other problem to consider is the time of the season. If, for instance, it is easier to sell an item around October/November for the Xmas/Hannukah season and a buyer buys the item at that time, but then holds onto it for six months before returning it, the seller will then be forced to wait for several more months more before re-listing and selling the item again in October, November, or December. 30 days for returns should be more than enough time...
Edits: 10/15/14 10/15/14 10/15/14 10/15/14 10/15/14
If a customer wants to screw you they're going to screw you. If they have 45 days to do it they'll do it within 45 days. I really don't think there's anyone out there to speak of that wouldn't do it within 45 days but would do it if they had 180 days.
Well, if the new policy is in effect we'll certainly find out what the screwmeisters are going to do.
I just want to make clear I'm not up in arms but this policy will be abused, perhaps seldom and I feel sorry for those it affects regardless of the final outcome.
ET
If a dishonest customer wants to fuck with you, they're not going to need another 135 days to do it. On the flip side, it will be a bit more difficult for a dishonest seller to string someone along for 180 days versus 45 days.
I'm not worried about this at all. I'm more worried about people like the clown who opened a PayPal claim just to cancel an order. Couldn't be bothered to call or email. Opened a damn PayPal claim.
It seems most Paypal policy changes over the years have been for the buyer and against the seller. Clearly they think that making their policies more buyer friendly is the key to making more money. They are right.
ET
I don't really see it as being against the seller. At least not against honest sellers.
You are in the minority and you seem to fail to realize that both buyers and sellers can be dishonest. Giving 6 months WILL result in more false claims. Period.
ET
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